MEASURABLE 14C IN FOSSILIZED ORGANIC MATERIALS: CONFIRMING THE YOUNG EARTH CREATION-FLOOD MODEL

http://www.icr.org/research/icc03/pdf/RATE_ICC_Baumgardner.pdf ^

[headsonpikes]

"Now you see why I didn't sign onto the good behavior agreement..."

Me. too.

[fishtank]

There are 90 different samples listed in Table 1 of the paper. There are 22 different studies cited with various materials tested for C-14 concentrations, including but not limited to:

marble
shell
graphite
calcite
shells
bone
coal
foraminifera
fossilized wood
natural gas
etc.



Where does the C-14 come from, especially in the organic materials (i.e. fossil fuels) if they are eons old?

[ThinkPlease]

It appears the paper is not published or peer reviewed. If it had been, the referees would undoubtedly have told the authors to examine the possibility that 14C might be produced endogenously at low levelswithin the earth by nuclear transmutation reactions, and to estimate the rate of such production. The referees might also have obligated the authors to point out that the levels of 14C are still extremely low, compared with 99% of the material used for radiocarbon dating.

You also forgot the conclusion. I would have asked them to support their conclusions better, especially that last line. It's jarringly out of place, with not a shred of scientific evidence in the paper to back it up exclusive of any other conclusion you might draw.

[bondserv]

The Holy Spirit leads us to the truth about what Christ did for us on the cross. By accepting that basic truth we have repented of our rebellion and acknowledged God's plan for our rescue.

Subsequently, God reveals Himself to us through the revelation of His Son, via the Holy Spirit authored Word of God. Blessed are those who believe not having "seen" these things. We can read of the truth's that God has preserved in the Holy Scriptures.

Christians have been wrong about the Bible over the years, but it is mostly due to their refusing to believe what the text says. (Luther's anti-Semitism - 1948 Israel regathered, a-millennialism - Augustine's incorrect allegorical view of The Book of Revelation, Crusades - the temple for the church is in believers hearts not the Holy Land, Inquisition - Christ is the mediator between man and God, not a power grab by a religious bureaucracy trying to shore up their leadership...).

Our relationship with God cannot be shaken by the musing of intelligent men. If we try to shape the Word of God to fit man's traditions, one of which is "science", we will fall into the same error as the religious leaders in Jesus' time. Science is correct only as long as it agrees with scripture, or it may or may not be correct if scripture doesn't comment on the topic.

HAVE YE NOT READ?

[Blood of Tyrants]

Because the life of a bacteria can be measured in days. We live for decades, continually absorbing DNA damaging cosmic and UV rays. Over the centuries our lifespan has steadily decreased as the DNA of the next generation gets less stable. Pre-flood people lived for hundreds of years because there the cosmic and UV rays were blocked.

There are dozens of examples of species today that suggest that at one time they were MUCH larger. For example, there are skeletons of alligators that were 50 feet long. Today we know that an alligator never stops growing.

There is no fossil whatsoever that suggests that a platypus was ever anything except a platypus, but fossils show that the platypus was actually much larger thousands of years ago.

Same with ferns and trees and sharks and turtles and so on.

Even the bible is consistent on this matter. Noah lived 950 years, his sons about 600 years, his grandsons 438 years, their sons 433 years, their sons 464 years, their sons 239, their sons 239, their sons 230, their sons 148, and it goes on down.

[Blood of Tyrants]

P.S. Who is to say that the lifespan of a bacteria wasn't several weeks at one time?

[headsonpikes]

"Actually, they just consider it to be highly improbable."

That d*mned Rudy Carnap was a Vogon - I always knew there was something funny about the guy...;^)

Myself, I'm with the necessity school - the universe necessarily exists as existent.

History, of course, including the varied sagas of theories, can not admit necessity to its lexicon, as all historical events are chock full of human beings, each with his own will.

And at each and every epochal moment in history, human action, or inaction, could have altered events radically. There is no 'necessity' in history, or by extension, in human life.

[VadeRetro]

Where does the C-14 come from, especially in the organic materials (i.e. fossil fuels) if they are eons old?

Atmosphere (CO₂), groundwater (carbonic acid), subterranean sources. And we're talking very small, noise-level amounts here.

Let's list all the things this paper is doing wrong when it claims that its measurements are evidence for a young earth:

1. It focusses entirely upon a single measure, carbon-14, because all the other radiometric dating techniques give answers incompatible with its premise.
2. It ignores that even carbon-14 is giving answers incompatible with (too old for) its premise.
3. It ignores more mundane explanations for non-zero carbon-14 in old rocks.

[Elsie]

." I'd rather stake my soul on believing Christ died for my individual sins, accepting His Grace, and telling others about His love for them.

This is excellent. This is the start; but, doubts WILL come, and THEN the logical conclusion will bring a person to the brink where he either decides, "I don't know", and continues in Faith, or he'll be convinced, "That can't BE! -- look at the 'data'!"

[Ichneumon]

Now you see why I didn't sign onto the good behavior agreement...

Why, is it such a bad thing to actually be expected to behave well, and to the same standards as everyone else in the discussion?

[Elsie]

The letters, J, R,M and E have been used on COUNTLESS threads. There reuse here seems to be an attempt to disrupt.

Ok............

[Con X-Poser]

<< Praytell, Christ said that "I am the door". What kind of hinges does He have? >>

My humble apologies - I was unaware that English was not your first language.

The English language has some tools which are used for comparative purposes, among them are analogies, similies, metaphors, hyperboles, euphenisms, and others.

This expression is a metaphor, because it doesn't use a comparative term such as 'like' or 'as'. An example of a simile would be "A day is AS a thousand years".

Such phrases would make no sense at all if the comparative object was not LITERAL in the first place. Jesus is COMPARED to a door because He has SOME qualities of a literal door - that doesn't mean He is identical to a literal door, but He is the portal a person must go through to be given salvation (portal, that is another comparative term). The context determines what qualities of the literal object apply to what it is being compared to.

When the Bible says the heaven and earth were created in six days - the term 'day' must be literal, normal, as generally understood, or subsequent comparisons (such as the one mentioned above with the thousand years, or comparisons with weeks, months, seasons, and years given in Genesis) would make no sense at all. To say a day is AS 1,000 years would be meaningless if a day could be anywhere from 24 hours to 20 billion years. To say Adam was 930 years old would mean nothing if he had already lived through two days that were millions of years long.

And the subsequent statement from the same verse, that 1,000 years is AS a day, would make comprehension even more confusing, because then a day could be 1,000 times shorter than a day, rather than 1,000 years.

To summarize - the creation days are literal, they are not being compared to something else. No figure of speech is being used. But the example you gave is a grammatical tool called a figure of speech, specifically, a metaphor.

[fishtank]

http://www.icr.org/research/



They list other decay chains in the other articles on that URL.

The scientists who wrote these pieces are making a coordinated effort to present at least three decay chains (isotopes) that indicate a young earth.

[Ichneumon]

If you call mud dwelling sludge animals - remains precambrian fossils do you think that is ok ?

If I parse your sentence (this *is* a sentence, I hope) correctly, then yes, I think it's "ok" to call fossils of primitive aquatic animals in precambrian strata "precambrian fossils", because that's exactly what they are.

I mean real fossils of higher species than worms and mollusks !

If that's what you mean, then that's what you should say next time, instead of your prior false claims that there are, and I quote, "no precambrian fossils". There are, as has been pointed out to you many times.

[js1138]

Even the bible is consistent on this matter. Noah lived 950 years, his sons about 600 years, his grandsons 438 years, their sons 433 years, their sons 464 years, their sons 239, their sons 239, their sons 230, their sons 148, and it goes on down.

Are you asserting that pre-flood people typically lived 900+ years?

[js1138]

P.S. Who is to say that the lifespan of a bacteria wasn't several weeks at one time?

Bacteria are immortal. Think about it.

[VadeRetro]

The scientists who wrote these pieces are making a coordinated effort to present at least three decay chains (isotopes) that indicate a young earth.

When they get three down, they'll have about 37 to go. Right now it's about 40 to zero for an old earth. I doubt that they intend to ever address, much less make any serious dent in, the real evidence for the age of the earth.

[f.Christian]

On some insignificant trivia exception you are going to correct me everytime ---- bizarre !

[bondserv]

Are you asserting that pre-flood people typically lived 900+ years?

You would have too, unless you decided to hang out with people like Cain.

[js1138]

P.S. Who is to say that the lifespan of a bacteria wasn't several weeks at one time?

They're immortal and fun-loving:

Oh ah ee oo there's absolutely no strife
living the timeless life
I don't need a wife
living the timeless life
If I need a friend I just give a wriggle
Split right down the middle
And when I look there's two of me
Both as handsome as can be
Oh here we go slithering, here we go slithering and squelching on
Oh here we go slithering, here we go slithering and squelching on
Oh ah ee oo there's absolutely no strife
living the timeless life

;^)