Posted on 08/11/2003 4:53:49 PM PDT by apackof2
CBN.com – Conservatives say the Supreme Court's sodomy ruling is just one more example of judicial activism in the courts, that the Court has gotten too powerful and is creating new laws instead of ruling on the existing ones. David Barton is an expert on U.S. history, and he says the High Court is exercising powers that the Founding Fathers never intended. CBN’s Pat Robertson recently spoke with David Barton on "The 700 Club." PAT ROBERTSON: The Supreme Court, ladies and gentlemen. The eyes have been focused on the Supreme Court. Recent rulings by the court have shown how easily nine people, as a matter of fact, just five people, un-elected, can highjack the laws of an entire nation. Well, as history shows, America’s founders never intended the court to have that kind of far-reaching power. If you read the Constitution, it’s clear. David Barton is just an absolute treasure trove of knowledge about the early history of America, and he joins us now to share what he’s discovered about the early history of the Supreme Court. David, it’s always a joy to have you with us.
DAVID BARTON: Thanks. It’s good to be here.
ROBERTSON: I understand that the Supreme Court originally spent just a couple of weeks in session. How have they expanded their power? What did you find from your research that was the intention of the founders of the Supreme Court?
BARTON: Well, it’s interesting. The founders, when they drafted the Constitution, then gave authorization to have the U.S. Capitol. And in giving authorization for the U.S. Capitol, they laid the city as it exists today, and they even made plans for the Washington Monument back then when Washington was still alive. So they built the White House, the Capitol. They did not build a Supreme Court building. Not at all. So in the original plan, the Supreme Court was under the watchful thumb of Congress. As a matter of fact, in the original Capitol building, when the Supreme Court met, they actually stuck them in a closet. And so it’s kind of unfortunate the Supreme Court has come out of the closet.
ROBERTSON: Hey, that’s a nice place to be. Put them back in the closet.
BARTON: Originally they had a one-week term, and they were in a closet, and that was it. And then as the Capitol expanded, and we had the House move over to a different side, then the Supreme Court came out of the closet, and they got to be in the basement of the Senate. And that is where they stayed until 1935... And FDR in ’35 says, "Why don’t we get a separate building for the court?" And since then, they’ve felt like they are out from under the control of Congress, out from under any kind of jurisdiction.
ROBERTSON: What you’re saying is from your reading, and study and what I’ve seen, the same thing, is that they definitely were to be controlled by Congress. They weren’t this super-legislature that was striking down the laws of Congress.
BARTON: Well, significantly, in the Federalist Papers, it makes it real clear. And we hear today that we have three co-equal branches — the founders object to that. We had three co-sovereign branches, but they were not co-equal. The legislative branch was the most significant, the most important. That was the policy-making branch. The judiciary was the least important, and even in 1935 their term still only went six to eight weeks a year. It was not until you got Earl Warren in there. He said, "Let’s go nine months a year." And so now all the mischief of reviewing 7,000 cases and making a hundred rulings, et cetera, has come from that expanded time.
ROBERTSON: The interesting thing is that the appellate jurisdiction of the court is under the control of Congress.
BARTON: That’s right.
ROBERTSON: And not only that, the number of them, because we’ve had nine, then we had seven, and they went back to nine. And the Congress has the power to expand or contract at will.
BARTON: That’s right.
ROBERTSON: But they don’t seem to know that today.
BARTON: Well, they really don’t know that, and, interestingly enough, when Washington appointed the first justices, he only appointed five associate justices and one chief justice. So he starts with six, and, of course, they were experts. Three signed the Constitution, two ratified it, and one wrote the Federalist Papers. They knew what they were doing, but we’ve seen that change. And most people do not realize the only court in the United States that is constitutional is the U.S. Supreme Court. There is not a federal court in the land that is mandated by the Constitution. Congress tomorrow could pass a law to wipe out every federal judge except the Supreme Court, and it would be completely constitutional. And that was part of the control that Congress had over the courts. They were able to limit the jurisdiction over 200 times. Congress in the past has passed laws that say, we don’t want you guys dealing with [these things] — it could be abortion, it could be the Pledge of Allegiance, it could be anything. But Congress doesn’t do that now.
ROBERTSON: They’re so afraid.
BARTON: Yes.
ROBERTSON: They’re so afraid. I asked a group of them once, "Why don’t you do that?" And Millicent Fenwick of New Jersey, used to smoke cigars, she said, "Well, my colleagues don’t trust each other. They don’t trust themselves, so they want to refer these things over to the court for decision."
BARTON: Well in a political sense, it’s a lot easier to blame it on someone else; because whatever happens now, like with sodomy cases: "Hey, we didn’t have anything to do with that. The court did it."
ROBERTSON: Sure.
BARTON: And so, whether you’re anti-sodomy or pro-sodomy, now you’re off the hook with voters, and so it’s become real easy to defer things over; and that way you don’t make your constituencies mad, ‘cause you had nothing to do with it, which is gutless, basically.
ROBERTSON: Of course.
BARTON: But that’s what Congress should be doing is taking stands on policy, and it was interesting that, back in the beginning, our judges knew that. It’s very significant. One of the verses you used in this Operation Supreme Court is, "Give us judges at the beginning, lawyers as the first, then we’ll be a nation of righteousness," and our original justices, I mean, here’s a paper....
ROBERTSON: Tell me what they did in the early session.
BARTON: Can you imagine the original Supreme Court justices had a three-hour communion service in the Supreme Court. Now, this happens to be a newspaper from 1792, reporting the prayers that were going inside the Supreme Court. They never let a jury deliberate until they had a minister come in and pray over the jury, because they wanted the mind of God in the verdict. So, that’s original judges.
This happens to be the very first law book ever used in the United States. That’s done by signer of the Constitution, James Wolfston. He’s the original judge in the court, and he says that all human law must rest its authority on the authority of that law which is Divine. So we literally had Ezra 7:25 judges, judges who knew the law of God.
ROBERTSON: Well, you know I remember stories saying it never was intended that Christianity would be prostrated to the Muslims and the...
BARTON: That’s right.
ROBERTSON: ...whoever. I forget the exact quote. You probably know it better than I do.
BARTON: Well the story not only said that it would not be prostrated by other religions. Stories significantly said that it was the duty of government to promote Christianity. And at the time, the founding… people argue that today we’re pluralistic, they weren’t back then. That’s nonsense. They had over 30 different religions back then, we even had a founding father that was a Muslim, by the way. Francis Scott Key, who wrote "The Star Spangled Banner," led him to Christ, converted him; but we had a founding father who was a Muslim. It was always the intent to promote the laws of God, to promote the religious and moral standards of God’s Word.
ROBERTSON: It breaks my heart to see how they have departed from that original founding. How did it happen in your opinion? I’ve studied these things, too, but what have you found? Was there a turning point somewhere along the way?
BARTON: There was a turning point. We’ve been stewards of this nation. God gave it to us. He said, "You guys watch over it," and in the 20's and 30's when we told our kids, "You want to do something good for God? Be a pastor, be a missionary, but stay out of this secular stuff like law, and government and politics." So, you pull all of these godly people out of the legal profession, no more do you have the Daniel Websters and the John Quincy Adams and these guys arguing cases. Now you’ve got a whole different genre that comes in, and the Benchman Cardozas, and Rosco Powell, and Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., and these guys that are very secularist in their approach, and now they take the court. And so that’s what’s happened as we’ve pulled Christians out of that arena…
ROBERTSON: Sure.
BARTON: And, so that’s what happened, and now we’re 20, 30, 40 years behind the curve. The Court is so far out of touch with where people are. We know there’s 78 percent of people want prayer in schools, and 74 percent want The Ten Commandments up, and 81 percent oppose homosexual relations. But that’s not where these judges are, and Scalia hit it in his dissent on the sodomy case. He said we have a culture in our law schools that is so hostile to these values that most Americans hold dear, and that’s because we pulled ourselves out of the arenas 60 years ago.
ROBERTSON: That was the so-called fundamentalists, Gresham Machen, down there at Princeton who pulled out, he told them "get out," you know, "touch not the unclean thing, come from among them and be separate." That was the rallying cry.
BARTON: That’s right. "Don’t be salt. Don’t be light." And, of course, that’s the preservative, and when you pull it out, it all goes rotten which is what we’re seeing now. We have allowed it to rot, because we got out of the arena.
ROBERTSON: David, I appreciate your clarion call. Ladies and gentlemen, if we can only go back to the way it used to be, and this is the way it is. This was a Christian country. It was founded by Christians. Make no mistake about it. This nation belonged to God, and now people are saying it’s a shock to even talk about his Commandments. David Barton is a great resource. We thank this dear friend for being here with us. You always inspire us. God bless you.
BARTON: Thanks, Pat.
ROBERTSON: Good to see you.
2CH 7:[14] if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.
He said we have a culture in our law schools that is so hostile to these values that most Americans hold dear, and that's because we pulled ourselves out of the arenas 60 years ago.
Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture. {Jeremiah 23:1}
Exceptionally stupid statement. Congratulations.
Exactly, its the "idols" we have made, money,sucess, popularity,
politically causes(even good ones)
I can safely assume this is the same David Barton who's admitted to fabricating historical "quotes" which never existed and has been soundly debunked and criticized by everyone from atheists to the Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs.
Nice to see Pat Robertson giving him such kudos. Get a clue, Pat.
I hope you don't mean hide in churches and homes and wait to become perfectly pure while the homonazis and baby butchers complete their takeover.
It's possible (and indeed, necessary) to fight evil humbly. To humbly kick butt.
While the explanation on Barton's website seems to paint these misquotes as innocuous or accidental historical inaccuracies, other religious and historical authorities have stated their belief that Barton knowingly fabricated these misquotes never expecting to have them so scrutinized and exposed.
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