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New Dinosaur Species Found in India
AP ^
| August 13, 2003
| RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM
Posted on 08/13/2003 9:02:05 PM PDT by nwrep
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To: DittoJed2
Genetics does not support the jumps which evolution requires. When mutation occurs, it is usually detrimental to the creature and it certainly doesn't cause it to jump into an entirely different type of animal (reptile to bird, etc). Of course not. What you wrote above is a common creationist strawman of how evolution must work.
But there are no jumps and evolution most certainly does not require that such a transition like that in your example occurs within one generation.
1,661
posted on
08/20/2003 12:51:09 PM PDT
by
BMCDA
To: BMCDA
It requires that information be ADDED to the genetics of an animal that turns them from reptile to reptile plus a little bird, plus a little more bird, plus a little more bird until they are a bird. I understand what evolution is saying here. Whether or not dinosaurs were ectotherms or endotherms is also highly debated, adding another kink in some of the less disputed examples of evolution. Having genetic proof of an ape becoming more human until he becomes a human is missing.
To: VadeRetro
A belated correction to 1446:
Here's another creation-oriented site that treats the alleged problem in more detail: Clastic Dykes.
Clastic dikes.
1,663
posted on
08/20/2003 12:54:10 PM PDT
by
VadeRetro
(Darting eyes. Slinking off ...)
To: general_re
touchdown dances are for after you actually score
Unfortunately in today's NFL and college football, idiotic dances are now acceptable after a 7 yard screen dump off to the 3rd option receiver. I always say the equivalent would be me dancing the jig everytime I send a fax or some equally mundane thrice daily chore.
To: DittoJed2
As far as the lily-pad analogy goes, do you suggest that the continents are just free floating lily pads?
In the simplest of terms, yes. But that would be like calling those gargantuan space shuttle mover vehicle things, "sports cars."
To: BMCDA
And incidentally, some evolutionists believe there had to be jumps. Punctuated equillibrium explains such jumps (species separates from parent and evolves quickly. Returns to the fold and replaces parent species.) Of course, this still doesn't explain how an ape would turn into a human being.
To: whattajoke
The continents rest on plates, but the plates aren't small little things just freely gliding along the earth's surface. They are solid heavy masses that it takes a lot to move. They aren't "lily pads" even in the simplest of terms.
To: DittoJed2; AndrewC
From the AiG Website:
Breaking news Coming tomorrow!
Dont miss it. A bombshell for anyone who believes in millions of years! Startling breakthroughs in radiometric datingannounced by the five-year-old RATE research groupwill put scientists who believe in millions of years on the run. Make sure to tell your friends! Read about cutting-edge research that confirms biblical history!
Will be interesting to see what they come up with.
To: whattajoke
One of these days I'll be watching MNF and see some player getting a round of high-fives for successfully tying his shoes...
1,669
posted on
08/20/2003 1:05:40 PM PDT
by
general_re
(A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.)
To: VadeRetro
Clastic dikesDykes can be more interesting, in certain circumstances. ;-)
To: DittoJed2; VadeRetro
Aw man, that information thingy again. Mutations ARE new information. They may not always be beneficial but sometimes they are and in the this case it is very likely that they are passed on to the next generation. So over time these beneficial mutations accumulate and you end up with a population that can be quite different from it's ancestor population.
And what do you mean by a 'reptile plus a little bird'? Would a dinosaur with feathers qualify? (I think Vade has a nice pic of that somewhere)
1,671
posted on
08/20/2003 1:13:55 PM PDT
by
BMCDA
To: BMCDA
Mutations are a LOSS of information. And, a dinosaur with feathers is a dinosaur.
To: DittoJed2
Or a distortion of genetic information. You don't have information added that would be necessary for something to jump from one kind of an animal to another (i.e., from Ape to human).
To: DittoJed2
But punctuated equilibrium is only a jump on a geologic time scale. It can still take several thousands of generations and in most cases this is quite a long time if compared to the average human lifetime.
1,674
posted on
08/20/2003 1:24:18 PM PDT
by
BMCDA
To: whattajoke
Is DittoJed the first person to discredit plate tectonics here? No, Freeper "flash-frozen mammoths" Havoc did so a few months ago.
To: BMCDA
If you assume that amount of time will produce the results which you suggest.
To: BMCDA
And what do you mean by a 'reptile plus a little bird'? Would a dinosaur with feathers qualify? (I think Vade has a nice pic of that somewhere) And "a dinosaur plus a little more bird" sure sounds like Archaeopteryx.
To: DittoJed2
Define genetic information.
Then define how it is added and then subtracted.
I'd bet very few ID people have ever done so in a meaningful and scientific way. We're getting back to that territory where one has to ask, Define the Theory of Intelligent Design? And then wait indefinitely for an answer that invariably never comes.
1,678
posted on
08/20/2003 1:35:53 PM PDT
by
ThinkPlease
(Fortune Favors the Bold!)
To: DittoJed2
Mutations are a LOSS of information. No they are not. Sometimes they are a loss of information (e.g. excisions), sometimes they are a change in information (e.g. point mutations), sometimes they are a gain of information (e.g. duplications).
And, a dinosaur with feathers is a dinosaur.
Why is it not "a dinosaur with a bit of bird"?
To: DittoJed2
http://www.icr.org/research/jb/largescaletectonics.htm Baumgartner's bizarre and almost unreadable paper is mostly flying under the radar of mainstream science. A more layman-comprehensible narrative of the flood-model geology is presented in this ICR paper from the same year (1994) which Baumgartner partially authored.
Indeed, this is Walt Brown's hydroplate in a more sophisticated treatment. Baumgartner's new wrinkle is "runaway subduction," to power the high-speed slamming about of continents. Some of the more risible aspects of Brown's geology have been discarded.
Many of the problems apparently remain. As in the Walt Brown model, the high-energy kinetics might well have boiled the oceans. That and other problems are discussed on this message board. ("Arm waving" is another part of it.)
More direct counterindications of the YEC models are mentioned here on Rates of Plate Movement During the Phanerozoic. The conclusion:
YEC tectonic models in which Pangaea is rifted apart and its fragments displaced to more or less their present positions during Noah's Flood, about 4500 years ago, are not consistent with presently measured motions, with rates indicated for the Phanerozoic by radiometric data, or with the distribution of deep sea sediments.
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