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New Dinosaur Species Found in India
AP ^ | August 13, 2003 | RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM

Posted on 08/13/2003 9:02:05 PM PDT by nwrep

New Dinosaur Species Found in India
2 hours, 55 minutes ago
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By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writer

BOMBAY, India - U.S. and Indian scientists said Wednesday they have discovered a new carnivorous dinosaur species in India after finding bones in the western part of the country.

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The new dinosaur species was named Rajasaurus narmadensis, or "Regal reptile from the Narmada," after the Narmada River region where the bones were found.

The dinosaurs were between 25-30 feet long, had a horn above their skulls, were relatively heavy and walked on two legs, scientists said. They preyed on long-necked herbivorous dinosaurs on the Indian subcontinent during the Cretaceous Period at the end of the dinosaur age, 65 million years ago.

"It's fabulous to be able to see this dinosaur which lived as the age of dinosaurs came to a close," said Paul Sereno, a paleontologist at the University of Chicago. "It was a significant predator that was related to species on continental Africa, Madagascar and South America."

Working with Indian scientists, Sereno and paleontologist Jeff Wilson of the University of Michigan reconstructed the dinosaur skull in a project funded partly by the National Geographic (news - web sites) Society.

A model of the assembled skull was presented Wednesday by the American scientists to their counterparts from Punjab University in northern India and the Geological Survey of India during a Bombay news conference.

Scientists said they hope the discovery will help explain the extinction of the dinosaurs and the shifting of the continents — how India separated from Africa, Madagascar, Australia and Antarctica and collided with Asia.

The dinosaur bones were discovered during the past 18 years by Indian scientists Suresh Srivastava of the Geological Survey of India and Ashok Sahni, a paleontologist at Punjab University.

When the bones were examined, "we realized we had a partial skeleton of an undiscovered species," Sereno said.

The scientists said they believe the Rajasaurus roamed the Southern Hemisphere land masses of present-day Madagascar, Africa and South America.

"People don't realize dinosaurs are the only large-bodied animal that lived, evolved and died at a time when all continents were united," Sereno said.

The cause of the dinosaurs' extinction is still debated by scientists. The Rajasaurus discovery may provide crucial clues, Sereno said.

India has seen quite a few paleontological discoveries recently.

In 1997, villagers discovered about 300 fossilized dinosaur eggs in Pisdura, 440 miles northeast of Bombay, that Indian scientists said were laid by four-legged, long-necked vegetarian creatures.

Indian scientists said the dinosaur embryos in the eggs may have suffocated during volcanic eruptions.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acanthostega; antarctica; australia; catastrophism; crevolist; dino; dinosaurs; godsgravesglyphs; ichthyostega; india; madagascar; narmadabasin; narmadensis; paleontology; rajasaurus; rino
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To: DittoJed2
Genetics does not support the jumps which evolution requires. When mutation occurs, it is usually detrimental to the creature and it certainly doesn't cause it to jump into an entirely different type of animal (reptile to bird, etc).

Of course not. What you wrote above is a common creationist strawman of how evolution must work.
But there are no jumps and evolution most certainly does not require that such a transition like that in your example occurs within one generation.

1,661 posted on 08/20/2003 12:51:09 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA
It requires that information be ADDED to the genetics of an animal that turns them from reptile to reptile plus a little bird, plus a little more bird, plus a little more bird until they are a bird. I understand what evolution is saying here. Whether or not dinosaurs were ectotherms or endotherms is also highly debated, adding another kink in some of the less disputed examples of evolution. Having genetic proof of an ape becoming more human until he becomes a human is missing.
1,662 posted on 08/20/2003 12:54:00 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: VadeRetro
A belated correction to 1446:

Here's another creation-oriented site that treats the alleged problem in more detail: Clastic Dykes.
Clastic dikes.
1,663 posted on 08/20/2003 12:54:10 PM PDT by VadeRetro (Darting eyes. Slinking off ...)
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To: general_re
touchdown dances are for after you actually score

Unfortunately in today's NFL and college football, idiotic dances are now acceptable after a 7 yard screen dump off to the 3rd option receiver. I always say the equivalent would be me dancing the jig everytime I send a fax or some equally mundane thrice daily chore.
1,664 posted on 08/20/2003 12:55:16 PM PDT by whattajoke
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To: DittoJed2
As far as the lily-pad analogy goes, do you suggest that the continents are just free floating lily pads?

In the simplest of terms, yes. But that would be like calling those gargantuan space shuttle mover vehicle things, "sports cars."
1,665 posted on 08/20/2003 12:57:33 PM PDT by whattajoke
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To: BMCDA
And incidentally, some evolutionists believe there had to be jumps. Punctuated equillibrium explains such jumps (species separates from parent and evolves quickly. Returns to the fold and replaces parent species.) Of course, this still doesn't explain how an ape would turn into a human being.
1,666 posted on 08/20/2003 12:57:50 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: whattajoke
The continents rest on plates, but the plates aren't small little things just freely gliding along the earth's surface. They are solid heavy masses that it takes a lot to move. They aren't "lily pads" even in the simplest of terms.
1,667 posted on 08/20/2003 1:03:06 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2; AndrewC
From the AiG Website:

Breaking news Coming tomorrow!

Don’t miss it. A bombshell for anyone who believes in millions of years! Startling breakthroughs in radiometric dating—announced by the five-year-old RATE research group—will put scientists who believe in ‘millions of years’ on the run. Make sure to tell your friends! Read about cutting-edge research that confirms biblical history!



Will be interesting to see what they come up with.
1,668 posted on 08/20/2003 1:04:59 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: whattajoke
One of these days I'll be watching MNF and see some player getting a round of high-fives for successfully tying his shoes...
1,669 posted on 08/20/2003 1:05:40 PM PDT by general_re (A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.)
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To: VadeRetro
Clastic dikes

Dykes can be more interesting, in certain circumstances. ;-)

1,670 posted on 08/20/2003 1:12:34 PM PDT by Da_Shrimp
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To: DittoJed2; VadeRetro
Aw man, that information thingy again. Mutations ARE new information. They may not always be beneficial but sometimes they are and in the this case it is very likely that they are passed on to the next generation. So over time these beneficial mutations accumulate and you end up with a population that can be quite different from it's ancestor population.
And what do you mean by a 'reptile plus a little bird'? Would a dinosaur with feathers qualify? (I think Vade has a nice pic of that somewhere)
1,671 posted on 08/20/2003 1:13:55 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA
Mutations are a LOSS of information. And, a dinosaur with feathers is a dinosaur.
1,672 posted on 08/20/2003 1:16:47 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
Or a distortion of genetic information. You don't have information added that would be necessary for something to jump from one kind of an animal to another (i.e., from Ape to human).
1,673 posted on 08/20/2003 1:20:39 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
But punctuated equilibrium is only a jump on a geologic time scale. It can still take several thousands of generations and in most cases this is quite a long time if compared to the average human lifetime.
1,674 posted on 08/20/2003 1:24:18 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: whattajoke
Is DittoJed the first person to discredit plate tectonics here?

No, Freeper "flash-frozen mammoths" Havoc did so a few months ago.

1,675 posted on 08/20/2003 1:26:12 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: BMCDA
If you assume that amount of time will produce the results which you suggest.
1,676 posted on 08/20/2003 1:26:20 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: BMCDA
And what do you mean by a 'reptile plus a little bird'? Would a dinosaur with feathers qualify? (I think Vade has a nice pic of that somewhere)

And "a dinosaur plus a little more bird" sure sounds like Archaeopteryx.

1,677 posted on 08/20/2003 1:34:35 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: DittoJed2
Define genetic information.

Then define how it is added and then subtracted.

I'd bet very few ID people have ever done so in a meaningful and scientific way. We're getting back to that territory where one has to ask, Define the Theory of Intelligent Design? And then wait indefinitely for an answer that invariably never comes.

1,678 posted on 08/20/2003 1:35:53 PM PDT by ThinkPlease (Fortune Favors the Bold!)
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To: DittoJed2
Mutations are a LOSS of information.

No they are not. Sometimes they are a loss of information (e.g. excisions), sometimes they are a change in information (e.g. point mutations), sometimes they are a gain of information (e.g. duplications).

And, a dinosaur with feathers is a dinosaur.

Why is it not "a dinosaur with a bit of bird"?

1,679 posted on 08/20/2003 1:36:47 PM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: DittoJed2
http://www.icr.org/research/jb/largescaletectonics.htm

Baumgartner's bizarre and almost unreadable paper is mostly flying under the radar of mainstream science. A more layman-comprehensible narrative of the flood-model geology is presented in this ICR paper from the same year (1994) which Baumgartner partially authored.

Indeed, this is Walt Brown's hydroplate in a more sophisticated treatment. Baumgartner's new wrinkle is "runaway subduction," to power the high-speed slamming about of continents. Some of the more risible aspects of Brown's geology have been discarded.

Many of the problems apparently remain. As in the Walt Brown model, the high-energy kinetics might well have boiled the oceans. That and other problems are discussed on this message board. ("Arm waving" is another part of it.)

More direct counterindications of the YEC models are mentioned here on Rates of Plate Movement During the Phanerozoic. The conclusion:

YEC tectonic models in which Pangaea is rifted apart and its fragments displaced to more or less their present positions during Noah's Flood, about 4500 years ago, are not consistent with presently measured motions, with rates indicated for the Phanerozoic by radiometric data, or with the distribution of deep sea sediments.

1,680 posted on 08/20/2003 1:38:26 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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