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Debate Over Bible Follows Gay Bishop OK
AP ^ | 8/15/03 | Richard N. Ostling

Posted on 08/15/2003 5:48:47 AM PDT by shhrubbery!

As the Episcopal Church agonized over the confirmation of the Rev. V. Gene Robinson as its first openly gay bishop - and now as his endorsement threatens to split the denomination - some have wondered why homosexuality is such a divisive issue in Christianity.

Why don't all Episcopalians and other churches simply recognize that gay people are sexually active and move on? After all, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down sodomy laws this year and Canada plans to legalize same-sex marriages.

The reason, in short, is the Bible - the word of God in the eyes of Christians.

Until very recently, all Christian branches agreed that same-sex activity was immoral because of their age-old understanding of God's will taught in the Scriptures.

Most of the world's Christian bodies maintain that belief. But in the last quarter-century, liberal scholars from some so-called "mainline" Protestant denominations in Europe and North America have argued against traditional Bible interpretations, often in books from church publishing houses. They say the Bible's overwhelming overall message is loving acceptance and justice for all people.

This has gradually influenced leadership circles in the Episcopal Church, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and United Methodist Church. Yet the new biblical theories have failed to convince legions of rank and file American churchgoers.

To go to the source of the argument, two biblical passages are crucial:

- "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination" (Leviticus 18:22, an Old Testament law repeated with the death penalty in Leviticus 20:13).

- "God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error" (the Apostle Paul in Romans 1:26-27).

Conservatives say God fixed the sexual pattern in Genesis 2:24: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh." Jesus repeated that teaching twice in the Gospels: Matthew 19:4-6 and Mark 10:6-9.

At the Episcopal convention, the Rev. Kendall Harmon of South Carolina said that the Old and New Testaments send the same message that sex is limited to a woman and a man. "There is no tension, no qualification, no development and no equivocation," he said.

Another conservative point: No biblical verse hints at approval for same-sex activity.

Liberal authors commonly say Leviticus 18 was part of a Jewish purity code that barred practices associated with paganism, including many laws Christianity eliminated, for instance the kosher rules in Leviticus 17. Conservatives reply that the gay ban is embedded alongside laws against adultery, incest, bestiality and child sacrifice that Christianity kept.

Regarding Romans 1 and other New Testament passages, liberals often say these were merely meant to oppose same-sex activity that was exploitative (using slaves or boys). A related argument: Paul thought men were heterosexual in nature and should shun homosexual acts, but some today believe people are born with a disposition toward being gay.

In the heftiest conservative book on the subject in recent years, "The Bible and Homosexual Practice" (Abingdon), Robert A. J. Gagnon of Pittsburgh Theological Seminary argues in detail that all same-sex variants were well known in the ancient world - so it's obvious the Bible opposed same-sex activity across the board, not just certain types.

But the Rev. Walter Wink of New York's Auburn Theological Seminary, a United Methodist clergyman, disagrees with Presbyterian Gagnon's reading of Scripture.

"The Bible has no sex ethic," Wink says. "It only knows a communal love ethic" exemplified by Jesus' command to love your neighbor as yourself, which requires Christians to understand gays' experiences.

Societies' changing codes of sexual conduct should be assessed against that standard and in light of modern knowledge, he says.

Wink acknowledges that "a lot of churches are not going to change" for the present, but he's convinced they will eventually shed old Bible interpretations that are "life-denying and intellectually dishonest."

"In 50 years most of us will look back and say, 'Why were we so slow? Why was this so difficult?'" he said.

Bishop-elect Robinson believes biblical conservatives will "come to know that they are wrong, in this life or the next one."

Gagnon agrees that the traditional view is not popular in universities or the media. But he insists that the Bible's entire authority is under threat. If people can deny such a clear and specific scriptural teaching, he says, it raises questions about the point of adhering to the faith in the first place.

Says Gagnon: "When we reach the point where it is no longer the word of God for us in any meaningful sense, there is no more reason to be part of organized Christianity."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: anglicanchurch; bible; episcopalchurch; fallout; gays; generobinson; genesis; homosexualbishop; leviticus; romans; stpaul
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I haven't heard of Richard N. Ostling before, but he must be a rare exception for the AP. This seemed surprisingly 'fair and balanced' to me.
1 posted on 08/15/2003 5:48:48 AM PDT by shhrubbery!
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To: shhrubbery!
"The Bible has no sex ethic," Wink says. "It only knows a communal love ethic" exemplified by Jesus' command to love your neighbor as yourself, which requires Christians to understand gays' experiences. "

Cowchips from a liar.

2 posted on 08/15/2003 5:51:15 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: shhrubbery!
"The Bible has no sex ethic," Wink says. "It only knows a communal love ethic" exemplified by Jesus' command to love your neighbor as yourself, which requires Christians to understand gays' experiences. Societies' changing codes of sexual conduct should be assessed against that standard and in light of modern knowledge, he says. Wink acknowledges that "a lot of churches are not going to change" for the present, but he's convinced they will eventually shed old Bible interpretations that are "life-denying and intellectually dishonest." "In 50 years most of us will look back and say, 'Why were we so slow? Why was this so difficult?'" he said. Bishop-elect Robinson believes biblical conservatives will "come to know that they are wrong, in this life or the next one."

They'd be better off tying a millstone around their necks and throwing themselves into the sea.

3 posted on 08/15/2003 5:52:24 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: shhrubbery!
Ostling is former religion reporter for Time. He's been in the biz for decades and is indeed an excellent reporter.
4 posted on 08/15/2003 5:52:40 AM PDT by ArcLight
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To: shhrubbery!
If liberals are right and God's Word is not authoritative for man's conduct, religion is irrelevant. The ACLU at least is more honest than the born liar Gene Robinson. It wants to eliminate God while Robinson and his ilk want Him to wink and nod at that which was always understood to be a sin from antiquity to the present day.
5 posted on 08/15/2003 5:54:27 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: shhrubbery!
This seemed surprisingly 'fair and balanced' to me.

This article illustrates what reporters are supposed to do--report. He's given the main arguments on both sides of the issue, without trying to steer the reader one way or the other.

6 posted on 08/15/2003 5:54:37 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: wimpycat
We should get on with program and be PC. After all pedophiles and perverts and pagans are in need of Christian understanding too.
7 posted on 08/15/2003 5:55:58 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: shhrubbery!
It'll be interesting to listen to the sodomites trying to explain to God the whole "but we didn't think you would mind" theory as they are being cast into the lake of fire.
8 posted on 08/15/2003 5:56:18 AM PDT by WestPacSailor (Nothin' says lovin' like full auto!)
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To: shhrubbery!
It's amazing really. Was there once a time when mainstream reporters all did this? AT 30, I guess I am too young to remember.
9 posted on 08/15/2003 5:56:46 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: goldstategop
Robinson and his ilk want to make God in their own image...they want to still have a church, so that they'll feel good about themselves, plus the robes and pomp and ceremony are so aesthetically pleasing...especially when they no longer stand for anything. They're replacing the Bible with the Gospel According to People Who Want to Have Their Cake and Eat it Too.
10 posted on 08/15/2003 5:57:16 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: WestPacSailor
I'm sure Dante would love to hear the explanation. Does that mean Bishop Robinson and his male lover are no longer destined for Hell?
11 posted on 08/15/2003 5:58:26 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
Well, yes, as a matter of fact, they are in need of Christian understanding. They just don't want it. But Christians should also understand that they can and should still treat them like human beings, while at the same time not condoning and working against what they are doing.
12 posted on 08/15/2003 6:00:26 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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To: wimpycat
We already have a good reverend who is an adulterer. Apparently when it comes to immoral conduct, the Church no longer sets the standards for society - it follows and lends it seal of approval to the vomit and depravity hollowing it out from within.
13 posted on 08/15/2003 6:00:29 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: wimpycat
My friend, I have no objection whatsoever to the former imperative. Its the latter that's mistakenly taken hold that should disturb all decent people.
14 posted on 08/15/2003 6:01:47 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: shhrubbery!
God is the same
yesterday
today and
forever.
15 posted on 08/15/2003 6:04:26 AM PDT by shiva
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To: goldstategop
Does that mean Bishop Robinson and his male lover are no longer destined for Hell?

Oh, they're going alright. Actually, they've just recieved their "head of the line" pass.

16 posted on 08/15/2003 6:07:37 AM PDT by WestPacSailor (Nothin' says lovin' like full auto!)
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To: shhrubbery!
"The Bible has no sex ethic," Wink says. "It only knows a communal love ethic" exemplified by Jesus' command to love your neighbor as yourself, which requires Christians to understand gays' experiences.

Typical, slippery, left-wing argument. If those rednecks only 'understood. . . ' But 'understanding' is neither endorsing nor celebrating.

The author somehow believes that Christians don't understand sin and the compulsion to sin. We do. Every human is born with that compulsion and every human gives in to it many many times.

The question is: do we recognize those acts as sinful? Do we repent and try to do better or do we claim that what we do is just fine, thank you.

Christians recognize homosexual acts and many other activities that are expressly forbidden in the Bible as being sinful.

Secular humanists want the Church to repudiate the teaching of the Bible that what homosexuals do is sinful.

That's the whole argument. It's not a matter of understanding the homosexual compulsion to sin--as if 'understanding' would automatically lead to endorsement. It is a matter of the label we put on it.

17 posted on 08/15/2003 6:10:00 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: shhrubbery!
If people can deny such a clear and specific scriptural teaching, he says, it raises questions about the point of adhering to the faith in the first place. Says Gagnon: "When we reach the point where it is no longer the word of God for us in any meaningful sense, there is no more reason to be part of organized Christianity."

Thank you. Organized Christianity has become a joke, I got tired of arguing against the ever increasing liberal interpretations of the Bible that dictate church doctrine long ago...I would rather worship at home than associate with hypocrites and fools.

18 posted on 08/15/2003 6:10:35 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: shhrubbery!
They say the Bible's overwhelming overall message is loving acceptance and justice for all people.

"IS" defined in liberal terms.

This guy shouldn't work so hard at trying to take God's job.

Question for these pontificating harlots of theology: If the Holy Bible is so plain and clear in accepting, promoting and blessing homosexuality, in any and all forms, why did it take thousands of years for Man to figure that out?

Why is it only homosexuality that has been so misunderstood by Bible scholars for so many years?

Consider how many forms of stealing, lying, cheating, adultery, dishonor of parents, taking God's name in vain, worshiping graven images, making the Sabbath just another day....why haven't these sins become 21st century-ized giving us entertainers from the Gentlemen's Club as the altar guild? An embezzler for a church treasurer? A rapist for Church School Superintendent? The town drunk for a LEM?

Because it is not fashionable....yet.

19 posted on 08/15/2003 6:15:07 AM PDT by N. Theknow
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To: WestPacSailor
Actually, they've just recieved their "head of the line" pass.

I don't know about his lover, but "Bishop" Robinson has put himself at the head of the line. The lover is not a preacher, but he is, and there is a special place in hell for wolves in shepherd's clothing. Don't know exactly chapter and verse where it's mentioned, but it's somewhere around the one about tying the millstone around one's neck that I mentioned in my post #3.

20 posted on 08/15/2003 6:23:25 AM PDT by wimpycat (Down with Kooks and Kookery!)
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