U.S. troops using confiscated Iraqi AK-47s (favored over M-16s)

boston.com ^ | 8/24/2003 14:00 | Andrew England

[Centurion2000]

The AK-47 (or actually, the AK-74) is the finest weapon in the world.

Most reliable general rifle and best all around weapon. Yep.

Finest ? Not even close.

[Lazamataz]

Doesn't the AK-74 use 5.45mm ammo?

Nossir. Well, let me qualify that: A variant called the AKM does, but in general, AK's (47's and 74's) use 7.62X39.

[Imal]

Whichever weapon a soldier prefers is the best weapon for the job. Period.

Being the poor bastard getting shot at trumps being an armchair quarterback any old time.

[RussianConservative]

No 5.54 mm and small round tuble so very deadly as long as no armor.

[Lazamataz]

Finest ? Not even close.

We need to define the word finest, because my definition of finest is most reliable general rifle and best all around weapon. :o)`

[LibKill]

Ah! The Chauchat!

I got to handle one of those things when I was a kid. Handle, not shoot. It was a Deactivated War Trophy.

It was heavy as sin and crudely made.

On a History Channel special on WWI weapons a firearms expert said that it was so poorly made that parts were not interchangeable between weapons.

You're right. Worst...Weapon...EVER!

[Lazamataz]

No 5.54 mm and small round tuble so very deadly as long as no armor.

Vui zdyes, droog. What is the name of the new Russian rifle you guys recently fielded? It has a high cyclic-rate for the first three rounds, then cycles down to a lower rate to conserve ammo...?

[ward_of_the_state]

I humbly ask your forgiveness if this has been said, but wait til the libs get ahold of this. Our boys will have to go through background checks, waiting periods, and the whole bit.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

Actually, the M-14 (that is, the M-1 Garand with it's problems fixed) is the best all-purpose small arm in the world.

The M-16 was adopted based on a bunch of faulty assumptions, the primary one being that "it is better to WOUND an enemy soldier than to KILL him, because that ties up four other soldiers taking care of him". I don't think this is a valid assumption for any but Western armies (like ours and other NATO types).

As far as ammunition weight and bulk being a limiting factor, I note that most of thse troops are in some sort of vehicle most of the time- and ammunition resupply is therefore not a big problem.

I will say one good thing for the M-16- it is accurate. I used to teach it, and it was MUCH easier to get trainees through with acceptable levels of proficiency with the M-16 than with the M-14. You do lose range and knockdown power, though.

[Lazamataz]

Actually, the M-14 (that is, the M-1 Garand with it's problems fixed) is the best all-purpose small arm in the world.

You'll see me talk about the M14 glowingly later in the thread, however, you'll also see me note it's faults (football/football) :o)

[FreedomCalls]

The AK has killed a lot of people in the last 40 or so years, most of them under the age of 30.

Automobiles have killed vastly more. We lose 42,000 people per year in the United States alone to traffic accidents. Most of them are also under age 30. I don't understand your point.

[RANGERAIRBORNE]

The M14 is 44 inches long and weighs just over 8 1/2 pounds- not exactly like carrying a BAR around. There is (or should be) some requirement for strength and endurance for soldiers. After all, the WWII infantryman carried a much heavier rifle, and we won that one...

[Wolverine]

...and no one picket up on this...???

 

''We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers.....said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.

.....

Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.

''It's plentiful,'' said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.

[Jack Black]

"finest" ? Hmm, don't think I'd agree with you there. A SAKO TRG-S in .338 Lapua maybe?

It is about the most crude weapon around, except for its cousin the SKS and a few WW2 era subguns.

It is plentiful, reliable has a good rate of fire, is cheap to manufacture. It is also inaccurate, few examples get close to a M-16 or FAL.

I don't believe the AK-74 variant is much used in Iraq. I think these are real 47s. The "more knockdown" rule probably doesn't apply to the 74, its almost the same round as our .223

Still, the first requirement in a weapon of war is that it works every time. The AK passes that test with flying colors.

[cavtrooper21]

Not to jump down your throat, but you need to clarify your weapon types.
AK-47: (7.62mm x 39mm Commbloc) The one. The only.
AKM: (basicly the same thing as an AK-47 but uses more stamped parts) This is the "export" or "clone" most often seen. This variant has been mass produced in over 60 countries. Chambered in 7.62mm x 39mm
AK-74: Newest version to see front line service. Not widely used due to availiblty of ammo. Chambers the 5.45mm round developed in response to the 5.56mm round used by the US in Vietnam. Has issues with exessive muzzle blast and noise.
I like the AK-47. It works, all the time. Put a LER scope on it and you have (provided the weapon was in good shape to begin with) you have a good general purpose rifle.
I have a Yugoslavian clone (machined, not stamped) that I picked up in the 80's. It's stashed for a rainy day.
I think the FN/FAL is a far better weapon, but when you look at bang vs buck the AK is better.

[Lazamataz]

The M14 is 44 inches long and weighs just over 8 1/2 pounds- not exactly like carrying a BAR around. There is (or should be) some requirement for strength and endurance for soldiers. After all, the WWII infantryman carried a much heavier rifle, and we won that one...

Well, we were much tougher a populace in WWII.... you ever seen the pasty mounds of leavened dough that walk our streets these days? :o)

If you couple the weapon's weight with the quite-heavy ammo, and you have a gen-yoo-ine burden. However, yes, the BAR was like lugging a small bank vault around.

[Jack Black]

Sorry, Lazz but your off base on your nomenclature. The AK-74 does indeed mean it's a 5.45x39mm catridge. AKM is the stamped steel version of the AK-47, which is the milled original. While some collectors like the machined one (which is more like traditional western style rifle manufacture) most Russians say the stamped AKM is just as good, or better. It weighs about a pound less too. AK-47 is 7.62x39mm

[Lazamataz]

AKM: (basicly the same thing as an AK-47 but uses more stamped parts) This is the "export" or "clone" most often seen. This variant has been mass produced in over 60 countries. Chambered in 7.62mm x 39mm

Okay, thanks for that. I've seen a few AKM's and invariably they were the 5.45 version. I mistakenly assumed that was the only way they came...

AK-74: Newest version to see front line service.

I think there's one that's newer still. It has a high cyclic rate for 3 rds then cycles lower.... neat stuff...

[Lazamataz]

The AK-74 does indeed mean it's a 5.45x39mm catridge. AKM is the stamped steel version of the AK-47, which is the milled original

Right. Mea culpa. Got 'em bass ackwards. :o)

[Jack Black]

I agree. The FAL is all around better. In the "para" configuration it's just as handy. The .308 kicks butt on either commie round.

FN-FAL: The Right Arm of the Free World.