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The Islamization of France
Tech Central Station ^ | 08/28/2003 | Jean-Christophe Mounicq

Posted on 08/28/2003 9:07:13 AM PDT by aculeus

If Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilization" theory is right, France is on the front line. With at least six and maybe eight million Muslims living in its territory among a total population of 60 million, France is the most "islamized" Western country. Seeing France's inability to adapt to globalization or to the aging of its population, it could be bad news for the world that the French are the first to be forced to facilitate the emergence of a "modern" Islam.

As nearly every Western country absorbs a fast growing Muslim minority, every Westerner should look closely at France. A French failure to integrate Muslims could lead to a general European and Western failure. Those who don't believe in the clash of civilizations might at least see a clash between traditional Islamic values and Western republican values. This raises the question of the compatibility of Islam with secular democracy (separation of church and state) and human rights (especially the rights of women and of non-Muslims).

All Muslims do not interpret the Koran identically and do not practice the same forms of Islam. But which Islam is going to win in Western countries? Even if they do not say it openly, more and more French citizens fear an Islamist victory that could lead to religious and civil war. The vote in favour of Jean-Marie Le Pen is emblematic of this fear. Locally, votes in favour of the National Front are linked to the proportion of Muslim immigrants in the population.

Stephen Schwartz, in his book The Two Faces of Islam, has an optimistic view of the Islamic question and believes any problems stem from the radical Wahabist sect. The Saudis finance most mosques and Islamic schools all over the world. This leads to a worrisome preponderance of Wahabi influence over Muslim thought. One has to admire the courage of Schwartz, whose fight against Islamo-fascism is of extreme importance.

Schwartz thinks Islam is essentially a religion of "tolerance" and that Mohammed was a "man of peace". Yes and no. Muslims do tolerate others but they also give them an inferior status. Mohammed was a man of peace but also a warrior. The beliefs of Mr Schwartz are so strong that he converted to Islam. His choice certainly demonstrates one solution to preventing a clash of civilization.

As every non-Muslim may not be in the mood to convert, and as every Muslim does not adhere to the same peaceful reading of the Koran, one may be permitted a more pessimistic view. The overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists. But from Bali to Riyadh, from Karachi to Jerusalem, from Moscow to New York most terrorists are Muslims. In his book Why I Am Not a Muslim, Ibn Warraq, born Muslim, contends that "all Muslims still take the Koran literally" and hence "there is no difference between Islam and Islamic fundamentalism". It is certain that, as Bernard Lewis wrote, "the creed and political program of Islamic fundamentalist are not compatible with liberal democracy."

So what percentage of Muslims is fundamentalist? From Algeria to Turkey, when Muslims are free to vote, Islamists regularly win 30 to 40 percent of the votes. In France... the result was no different. In May 2003, the French interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, organized elections for a Representative Council of French Muslims. The Islamists of the UOIF (Union des Organisations Islamistes de France) won over 40 percent of the votes.

This election was a major failure for Sarkozy, who wanted to promote moderate Muslim leaders like Dalil Boubakeur, head of the Mosque of Paris. Before the elections Dalil Boubakeur denounced "the Islam of the suburbs, the Islam of the excited" and was anxious about "more and more young going from the suburbs to Peshawar". He asked "Why shave the beards in Kabul while cultivating them in the Paris area?"

The result of the election, which took place among Mosque-goers who are more fundamentalist than "average" Muslims, was to give power to the president of the UOIF -- who wears a beard and asserts that "our constitution is Koran" -- a way to reject the constitution of France and live according to Islamic (Sharia) law clearly opposed to French law. The problem with Islam is that it is not only a religion but also an ideology that intends to rule man's life on earth.

Was the victory of the Islamists really a surprise given the recent resurgence of anti-Semitism, mainly instigated by young Arabs, in France? After 9/11, in the 19th Arrondissement of Paris, many blew their automobile horns loudly. After the beginning of the new Intifada in Israel, thousands shouted openly "death to the Jews" in Strasbourg. During the Iraqi war, thousands waved portraits of Saddam, Israeli flags with Nazi emblems and Bush portraits with Hitler's moustache.

A stranger may wonder at the lack of French reaction. Is it because the Catholic French are also anti-American and anti-Semitic? The answer is: no. It is more a mixture of laziness ("we'll see later"), fear ("do not provoke Muslims, they may become terrorists"), bad conscience ("Crusades, colonies, unemployment"), optimism ("we will invent the best system") and difficulty confronting reality.

Economics plays a major role in the "Muslim problem". The overwhelming poverty in Middle Eastern and North African countries, ruled for centuries by Islam, drives their populations to desperation. The Islamists, nostalgic for the glorious past of the Caliphates, place the blame for these conditions mainly on Westerners, rejecting the fact that the problem has its roots in the failure of their own societies. With one of the highest unemployment levels for youth among OECD countries, France is in a bad position to provide a model of integration.

Many Muslims came to France only to benefit from the state welfare system, get free social housing, free school, free Medicare, and family allocations but with no desire to adapt to French rule of law. Last July, Sarkozy passed a bill intended to control immigration networks and to stop some Muslim customs: polygamy, excision, repudiation and forced marriage. One hopes that he will be more successful than with the election of his Islamic council. If the Islamization of France goes on it will accelerate the clash of civilization.

Copyright © 2003 Tech Central Station Europe -


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: france
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1 posted on 08/28/2003 9:07:14 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
This time, not one drop of American blood to save those french pigs. They can save themselves or they can perish, as far as I'm concerned.
2 posted on 08/28/2003 9:23:28 AM PDT by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker
What you said.
3 posted on 08/28/2003 9:28:09 AM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
"It is a mixture of laziness ("we'll see later"), fear ("do not provoke Muslims, they may become terrorists"), bad conscience ("Crusades, colonies, unemployment"), optimism ("we will invent the best system") and difficulty confronting reality."

There's all that ... plus the fact the French are dead end losers.
4 posted on 08/28/2003 9:31:50 AM PDT by hauerf
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To: aculeus
INTSUM
5 posted on 08/28/2003 9:32:15 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: aculeus
After the French callously refused to even help 10,000 elderly people survive heat exhaustion, let Osauma teach the little pricks a lesson they deserve.
6 posted on 08/28/2003 9:42:21 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Nothing Is More Vile Than A Blowhard With Halitosis! - redruM)
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To: .cnI redruM
After the French callously refused to even help 10,000 elderly people survive heat exhaustion, let Osauma teach the little pricks a lesson they deserve.

I understand your feelings but I must disagree. A Muslim France is a Muslim country with strategic nukes.

7 posted on 08/28/2003 10:54:30 AM PDT by Salman (Mickey Akbar)
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To: Salman
You're right. We need to occupy and DeNazify France.
8 posted on 08/28/2003 10:56:48 AM PDT by .cnI redruM (Nothing Is More Vile Than A Blowhard With Halitosis! - redruM)
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To: hauerf
the U.S, will go down the same slippery slope if we're not careful
9 posted on 08/28/2003 11:05:55 AM PDT by y2k_free_radical (ROTFLMAO)
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To: aculeus
The overwhelming poverty in Middle Eastern and North African countries, ruled for centuries by Islam, drives their populations to desperation.

Too bad it doesn't drive them to the real God.

10 posted on 08/28/2003 12:41:54 PM PDT by aimhigh
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To: aculeus
Observe Nigeria to foresee France's future. How much longer until fornicators in France are buried to the neck and then stoned to death? When half the population is Islamic.
11 posted on 08/28/2003 1:47:32 PM PDT by TexasRepublic (Liberal = Socialist = Communist)
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To: y2k_free_radical
the U.S, will go down the same slippery slope if we're not careful

Yes, but it will be because of Mexican "guests" rather than Algerian ones...

12 posted on 08/28/2003 1:49:58 PM PDT by Mackey
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: aculeus
A French failure to integrate Muslims

How about Muslim failure to intergrate into France?

The problem with the people of the Western Culture is that we are to nice and the muslims see this as a weakness and exploit it every chance they get.

14 posted on 08/28/2003 1:56:20 PM PDT by Missouri
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To: Missouri
How about Muslim failure to intergrate into France?

Exactly.

15 posted on 08/28/2003 3:34:04 PM PDT by aculeus
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To: aculeus
Many Muslims came to France only to benefit from the state welfare system

What ingrates! My late Grandmother was born in France and came to this country about 1920. She was an old style Catholic women who was widowed and raised 4 boys by herself during the depression. I'm glad she's not around to see what is happening in France today.

16 posted on 08/28/2003 3:58:51 PM PDT by Missouri
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To: Missouri
Many North Africans first came to France as soldiers in WW1 and WW2. Many died there. Their cemeteries not as beautiful as Americans, but better that the French soldiers' in America.
But all you see is the welfare state.
Then many more came as workers to help rebuilding the country destroyed by German on land and "allied" in the air.
But all you see is the welfare state.
Then many came to France as refugees after Algerian independance. The christians recovered well, the Jews even better, the Moslems were left with few schools and few jobs.
But all you see is the welfare state.
The "welfare state" is a English phrase. See UK about that.I think their doctors are civil servants ?
Here we pay insurance while we work and get benefits when we are ill, jobless, and retire. All that is our money. If we do not like it, we can vote and change it.Have you no health insurance in USA ? No retirement funds ? Third world indeed !
France has survived centuries of rabid Roman Catholic domination, it will survive Islam. As a calvinist,in Africa, I always enjoyed a long talk with local friendsin the evening about the Coran and the Bible (they liked to speak about girls, too, we were young). No images, no saints, no request, praise the Lord and thank him.
A huge majority of immigrants here are hard working people, their children honor their parents and they have good results in school. Dentists, lawyers, officers, doctors, engineers and politicians.
We have no wall to protect our country like the one you have built against Mexico. And we do not shoot immigrants in the back. The only thing we have in common with Texas is the size.Have you had a Jewish president yet ? We had several prime ministers, and a coloured president of the Senate, fifty years ago.Lots of immigrants'sons and daughters in Parliament and ministries and townhalls.

I look forward to the day when three chiefs of state will meet, one Maghrebin, on Turkish, and one Hispanic - in name only- representing France, Germany and USA.They might even be women, who knows ?
Have you had a Jewish president yet ? We had several prime ministers, and a coloured president of the Senate, fifty years ago.
17 posted on 08/28/2003 5:29:11 PM PDT by bashful frog (To Missouri... and all other states. Bloody hot for an old frog!)
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To: aculeus
With at least six and maybe eight million Muslims living in its territory among a total
population of 60 million, France is the most "islamized" Western country


At least 10% Muslim? It's all over but the shouting.
Forget those Napoleonic Codes, it's the express lane to Shari'a Law.

France will be the second nuclear Muslim nation (after Pakistan) unless the Iranians
keep up their quick cadence to join the nuclear club.
18 posted on 08/28/2003 5:37:27 PM PDT by VOA
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To: bashful frog
I hesitate to chide you for outrageousness—I know you are reacting in anger against those who made over-the-top remarks about France—who are in turn reacting to what we see as betrayal on the part of France. But you have some weird and wacky idea of what the USA is like. I think we can win any match up about how well immigrants do. And I’d like to know more about this wall we have around Mexico. Where exactly is that?
19 posted on 08/30/2003 9:10:10 PM PDT by duvausa
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To: bashful frog
Sorry, but if Frenchmen make the wrong decisions France must pay the price. I am grateful that France is far enough ahead of the US on this road that we will be able to observe your self destruction, learn and avoid our own. Better get used to walking in the streets, the sidewalks will be reserved for the Muslims.
20 posted on 08/30/2003 9:26:33 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
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