ABORTION-SLAY REV EXECUTED

New York Post ^ | 9/04/03 | GERSH KUNTZMAN

[kattracks]

September 4, 2003 -- As a violent thunderstorm flickered and dimmed the lights in Florida's execution chamber, a former minister was put to death last night for murdering an abortion doctor.

Paul Hill used his last breaths to call upon right-to-lifers to continue the fight - by any means necessary.

[strela]

One less murdering scumbag using up my oxygen. Good.

[Chief_Joe]

One less murdering scumbag using up my oxygen. Good.

Scumbag??? I wonder if you would support a law that would require all abortions to be video taped. It's time for this dancing with language to end. I just realized I've never seen an abortion performed, yet I don't believe there is anything else on television I have not seen. Why not show 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions performed? Could it be the big, big, big lie would be ended sight on seen??? I'd love to see the to images juxtaposed: a third trimester abortion being performed and the execution of man who tried to stop such procedures. This is a sickening story.

[strela]

I wonder if you would support a law that would require all abortions to be video taped.

Irrelevant. Hill was a murderer and got the punishment he deserved.

[rockfish59]

Barbara Boxer next? I mean, tit for tat, ya' know?

[wcbtinman]

Whether you agree with him or not, it sure was nice to see someone with real convictions.

If he really, truly believed that abortion is murder, I think that he can defend his actions before God.

[strela]

I agree that he was a murderer, but was it justified to stop the killing of innocent children?

No, not outside the legal system. Vigilante "justice" is no justice.

Had Hill murdered a terrorist holding hostage small children at a day care center, would he so villified?

Irrelevant. He didn't murder a terrorist under the scenario you described, he murdered a man in cold blood.

Or do you believe that life begins some 9 months after conception?

My views on abortion are irrelevant to this discussion.

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

I find Hill's logic unassailable.

Pro-lifers want it both ways. They insist that the fetus is a human person derseving of full legal protections, yet they refuse to accept that it follows then that one may use lethal force to stop another from taking that life.

Imagine if the abortionist had taken Hill's shotgun to the nearest maternity ward and started blasting newborns left and right. Clearly, everyone agrees that under those circumstances one is morally compelled to do anything within one's power to stop him, including killing him with all dispatch.

Hill acted to save innocent babies (by his reckoning) for a man who profited from their destruction. How is that significantly different from the analogy above?

I think that Hill did a service to us all by putting the Pro-Life movement to the test. Are Por-Lifers serious about the unborn being human? If so, it follows that abortion is murder, abortionists are murderers, and lethal force is justified (indeed, morally compelled) to stop it.

Heartbrak

[MEG33]

If you think war is immoral then would you suggest killing the soldier?If one thinks the death penalty is murder is it permissable to kill the executioner? Is a trial by jury or lynching the correct choice.

[wcbtinman]

Your questions are tangential to this discussion. The taking of any human life is murder. The question is: Is this action (murder) justified? If this murder prevents someone from killing an innocent child, then I would say, Yes it is.

God has, in the past, instructed that all of the men, women and children of a particular group be killed, along with their animals. God has been complicit in several killings that are written about in the Bible. For whatever reason, these murders were justified. I find no moral or Biblical ambiguity here.

You can't have the argument both ways.

[KC_Conspirator]

You know what I find really stunning about this episode? The fact that I find liberals, who are normally against the death penalty, celebrating this mans rightful execution. In fact, I heard our liberal local radio news guy gleefully proclaim this guy's execution, then transition into another news bit celebrating the 9th Circus Court's decision to free 100 inmates from death row. All in the same breath. Amazing.

[wcbtinman]

BTW, I never said that war is immoral. Some, maybe. But not all.

[MEG33]

If I believe war is immoral and a soldier is going to commit murder or air force bomber pilot is about to commit murder is it OK in your eyes for me to shoot him?Is setting off bombs OK or just shooting.Do you prefer a certain method of execution?Would you like a group like a posse to carry out the lynchings?

[Steely Tom]

What Paul Hill did was selfish. It damaged the pro-life movement by degrading its reputation. It played into the hands of the abortionists, by (among other means) helping them win future court victories in their fight to restrict the constitutional rights of pro-lifers to demonstrate at abortuaries.

He did far more harm than good in my view.

(steely)

[wcbtinman]

Echo...you've already been answered.

[MEG33]

In my mind I would be preventing murder so it's OK?

[bitcon]

I don't know how you can say the taking of any human life is murder. If you run a red light and kill someone accidentally is it murder? If someone breaks in to your house an you kill him is it murder? In the first instance it's a horrible accident not murder. In the second it's self defence.

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Where was the "fallacy of his doctrine?"

I see no internal inconsistency.

The Bible enjoins us many times over to kill those who would kill the innocent.

Was Joshua a murderer? No way! He's celebrated as a great and holy man. We name our children after him.

Yet, when Hill guns down a man who had murdered many, many innocents, then you would condemn him to life in solitary confinement.

Pro-Lifers can't have it both ways. Either the fetus really is a human being where all of the rules applicable to others apply - including the right to use force in defense of innocent life - or the fetus is not a full person and is some lesser life form that is not deserving of heightened protection.

Which is it, my friends?

If we truly accept that the fetus is a human being, then we cannot escape the conclusion that yesterday the gurney was raised to the level of the Cross.

Heartbreak

[mariejlt]

What if the doctor was described as a man being paid to murder small children by their parents? How would we feel aout Hill's action, if we relized the doctor was no more than a paid hit man, ?

I learn so much on this web site.. I had never thought about the fact that we do not see abortions,live on TV

[Hyacinth Bucket]

It's time for this dancing with language to end...Why not show 2nd and 3rd trimester abortions performed? Could it be the big, big, big lie would be ended sight on seen??? I'd love to see the to images juxtaposed: a third trimester abortion being performed and the execution of man who tried to stop such procedures.

I feel exactly the same way. I've always been against abortion but I was like many, in that, it was something that we just didn't talk about. But this is exactly what these baby killers want us to do. They want us to push abortion out of our minds so that they can continue with their gruesome deeds and money making schemes (body parts market-the older the baby the better).

To keep the abortion issue forefront in my mind, I forced myself one day, a few years ago, to look at some of the pictures of aborted babies available on some websites. To this day, I would never forget what I saw. I'm convinced that only people possessed by demons could possibly perform this procedure.

Is killing an abortionist an act of murder or is it a killing done much like at a time of war against people committing genocide?

Many people seem to already have a knee-jerk response to this question, hopefully because they've really thought about it hard, but I seriously doubt it. To be quite honest, the more I thought about it, the more I see it as the latter. I hope people don't misunderstand me because I'm really not advocating people to kill abortionists and I myself could never do it but abortion is genocide of the unborn babies and we should be declaring war against it.

Paul Hill paid for his crime with his life. This seems at least appropriate. We'll leave God to be the judge of his action.

[Godebert]

"One less murdering scumbag using up my oxygen. Good."

Two less....if you count the man that he killed.

[bitcon]

They should show an abortion being performed to every women considering one. When they see theres little hands and feet maybe they'll reconsider. For the the women who want a 3rd trimester abortion maybe seeing that the doctor has to pry the skull open and then suck the babies brains out to collapse the skull will make them realize that this isn't just a piece of flesh, it's a human life.

[MEG33]

Paul Hill was a self aggrandizing psychopathic killer.He received justice under our laws.I leave his soul up to God.

[MEG33]

He killed 2.

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Please explain why Hill's killing of the abortionist wasn't justified as defense of innocent human life.

I really would like to hear a satisfactory explanation, because frankly speaking I don't like holding the position that logic compels me to adopt.

I await your considered reply.

[Hyacinth Bucket]

Pro-Lifers can't have it both ways. Either the fetus really is a human being where all of the rules applicable to others apply - including the right to use force in defense of innocent life - or the fetus is not a full person and is some lesser life form that is not deserving of heightened protection.

Well said. You really got to the heart of the issue.

[AmericaUnited]

If he really, truly believed that abortion is murder, I think that he can defend his actions before God.

Not really. There are going to be a lot of really sincerely WRONG people trying that. Read this:

Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (We killed an abortion docter in your name) 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[AmericaUnited]

God has ordained governmental authority to exact justice. Otherwise, we would all be doing what "we think is right" and there would be utter chaos. Murder is wrong but are we supposed to just go up to a murderer and pump a few rounds into them? Answer: NO!

[AmericaUnited]

The taking of any human life is murder.

You don't understand that killing and murder are not the same. In the Old Testament, God instructed people to kill. Since murder is sin, how could God tell people to sin? Duh! Obviously there is a difference.

[bitcon]

And for those of you who are gona come out and say "thou shall not kill" well from what I've heard from some people whom I trust on this subject, this is a mistranslation. Something about it being translated from Greek or another language that did not have different words for murder and kill.

[MEG33]

Justified by what and by whom?Your personal beliefs ?His personal belief? That isn't how we are allowed to behave in a society of laws.You may justify it ,I may justify it.The law calls it murder.Logic may compel you to adopt the attitude but acting like Paul Hill can get you executed.

[dasboot]

"Paul Hill is a dangerous psychopath," said Marti McKenzie, spokeswoman for several Florida women's clinics.

takes one to know one

[Momma Lou]

Thank you for saying so beautifully what I feel.
All day I heard Paul Hill being compared to El Quida. Both thinking that killing the enemy will guarantee a place in heaven. I see things differently. The 17 hijackers killed thousands to secure their place in heaven. Paul Hill killed one killer of hundreds of babies to secure his place in heaven. Paul Hill is a martyr.

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

God has ordained governmental authority to exact justice. Otherwise, we would all be doing what "we think is right" and there would be utter chaos. Murder is wrong but are we supposed to just go up to a murderer and pump a few rounds into them? Answer: NO! That's taking government authority too far. Both the Nazis and the Bolsheviks acted under color of law. Did that make the genocides they committed lawful? Clearly, it did not. After all, no state authority is above the Natural Law, and indeed all states maintain their authority only upon condition that they do not stray too far from the same. The Nazis and the Bolsheviks were illegitimate authority because they condoned murder (including being the first abortion proponents) and other crimes against God's Natural Law. The Natural Law dictates that one may defend oneself meeting force with force, and by extension that one may vindicate the right of self defense of the innocent. No state may deny that God-given right and then claim legitimate authority. Any state, including our own, that denies the most basic protections to all human beings under its jurisdiciton thereby forfeits all authority over us. Your position would justify as God's will any tryant's most arbitrary action. This is simply out of the question, especially for any American who believes that all of our rights spring directly from Nature, and Nature's God. I see no way around concluding that Hill acted the way his conscience, guided by logic and I don't doubt by prayerful reflection, dictated. Who was it who said "he is a slave who will not speak for the fallen and the weak?" By that standard, Hill died a free man.

[Long Cut]

Hill's comission of murder prevented not a single abortion. Those wishing one simply went elsewhere.

Watch out before making him some sort of martyr. He WANTED to kill a human being, and stated that he would also have shot any police officers who got in his way. He was a psychopathic killer; the prolife cause was only his excuse.

He now goes to join his moral brethren in Al Queda and the ELF. Society will not miss him.

[Moosefart]

The word used in Exodus 20:13 "Thou shalt not Kill"is the hebrew word "ratsach". It means to kill or murder.

[AmericaUnited]

Right! This is why God ordained govermental authority.

In the book of Judges, it was a period where there was no king in Israel. And it says "Every man did what was right in their own eyes." Results in chaos.

[AmericaUnited]

Why do you think the majority of Christian/Baptist/etc. ministers and theologians, who are staunchly anti-abortion, don't agree with your ( or Hill's ) position?

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

The problem with your position is that it takes no real accounting of the facts of this case. Please answer directly the following questions:

1. Do you agree that any human being has the natural right to self defense?

2. Does that right to self defense include the right to use force in the defense of life?

3. If you agree that people do have a right to use force in the defense of life, then do you agree that one may use force in the defense of the life of another, innocent person?

(I'm really hoping you've answered "yes" thus far, as I'd hate to think that any American would deny any of that).

4. Do you agree that the human fetus is a human person, deserving of all the rights recognized for all others?

5. If you do believe that the fetus is a human being with rights on par with those of others, then do you believe that one may use force to defend them when their lives are threatened?

6. If not, why not?

[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Why do you think the majority of Christian/Baptist/etc. ministers and theologians, who are staunchly anti-abortion, don't agree with your ( or Hill's ) position?

I don't know why that is.

Why do you suppose it is?

[Hyacinth Bucket]

God has ordained governmental authority to exact justice.

The scripture verses that I think refer to the principle for government and also for the protection of life are:

Genesis 9:5-6
"And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting...And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."

In this case it only worked one way, with Paul Hill being executed by the government. In the case of the killing of the unborn children, the government's position is opposite that of God's position. Who is going to stop the genocide and get justice for the babies killed?

[bitcon]

Thanks for the correction. Don't know why I thought it was Greek but I did.

[TAIPAN22001]

The hypocrisy of the liberal left in not protesting this execution is truly sickening. Perhaps if Hill was a rapist/serial killer, a mass murderer or any other kind of murdering scum, they would have been there weeping and wringing their hands in self righteous despair. Hill was made an example of in this case to appease the baby klllers, while other denizens of death row, far more deserving of execution continue to avoid final justice. I think a life sentence would have been far more appropriate in this case, when you consider the blood on the hands of the "doctor".

[AmericaUnited]

Who is going to stop the genocide and get justice for the babies killed?

Certainly not people who take the law into their own hands like Hill!

[TAIPAN22001]

Does an abortion mill across the street "freak you out" as well?