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FBI concerned about threat of terror-induced blackouts
CNN ^ | Thursday, September 4, 2003

Posted on 09/04/2003 2:07:51 PM PDT by presidio9

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:03:04 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

The FBI found no evidence of any type of terrorism or criminal hacking in its investigation of the August power blackout in the Northeast, but the threat of such action remains a concern, the FBI's top counterterrorism official told a House committee Thursday.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: blackouts; fbi; firstenergy; psylliumhusks; targets; terrorism
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1 posted on 09/04/2003 2:07:51 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
I'd like to think the FBI is right here, but I remain skeptical.

New York
London
Sydney

Isn't it interesting that the three allies have been hit by blackouts, nobody else?

Odds are, these blackouts are not random occurances, despite the cover stories.
2 posted on 09/04/2003 2:10:24 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Since when does the FBI tell us everything we need to know?

Next thing you're going to tell me is that it is perfectly believable that air turbulence caused the tail to fall off of American Air 587, even though it just happened to be taking off from a NY airport almost exactly 2 months to the day after 911, and it has never happened before or since (although Richard Reid almost caused it to happen AGAIN less than 2 weeks later). They DO NOT tell us everything, get it?
3 posted on 09/04/2003 2:23:07 PM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al Run!!!)
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To: presidio9
I like an athletic body. And don't mind a big butt. I don't think her sister is good looking.

I would change that to "grotesquely huge to the point of deformity" (look again at the photo man!), but to each his own.

4 posted on 09/04/2003 2:24:54 PM PDT by presidio9 (Run Al Run!!!)
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To: DoughtyOne
When did Sydney have a black out?
5 posted on 09/04/2003 2:25:03 PM PDT by TBall
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To: DoughtyOne
terrorists CLAIMED credit.
the us does NOT know where the failure occured
the arabscummies have been talking about hacking relay switches and taking courses on it for years.

the part of canada where the hacking of relays could have occured, is it safe from arabscummies?

since they took credit, and since they could have done it from canada, and since our government is NOT denying that it MIGHT be something like this... guess what?

looks like a duck, walks like and talks like it too.

We have been sent a shot across the bow "we have you in our sights" and "can hit you from within and from without, in nearby nations who do NOT intend to fully cooperate with you in this war on terror...'

message sent. message received... and now message is being relayed "gently" to the nation...
our globalism has made us incredibly vulnerable.

welcome to the 21st century...
6 posted on 09/04/2003 2:26:03 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: DoughtyOne
When did Sydney have a blackout??
7 posted on 09/04/2003 2:30:39 PM PDT by Dog
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To: Dog
London
Sidney
8 posted on 09/04/2003 2:42:23 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: presidio9
"FBI concerned about threat of terror-induced blackouts"

Er, a lot of people getting shiite-faced during Yellow Alerts?
9 posted on 09/04/2003 2:43:37 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: Dog
Now, the question is, did the short circuit cause the fire or was some electronic command given that caused problems? I don't honestly know. A ten block area was affected.

It just seems strange to me that all of a sudden within a month to six weeks the three of us have had major outages.
10 posted on 09/04/2003 2:44:07 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
I missed the one on Sydney. When was it?
11 posted on 09/04/2003 2:45:17 PM PDT by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: presidio9
Yes I do get it. Truth I can deal with. Subtrifuge I can't.
12 posted on 09/04/2003 2:49:10 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: presidio9
Psyllium husks is great for solving constipation, just mix a tablespoon in with some cold water once or twice a day and after a week, your colon is all cleaned out.

13 posted on 09/04/2003 2:49:26 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Back in boot camp! 224.8 (-75.2))
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To: TBall
Please see reply 8 and 9. Thank you.
14 posted on 09/04/2003 2:49:44 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Robert_Paulson2
My outlook on our future tells me that even if we stayed within our nations boundaries we'd still have terrorism and problems with mid-eastern states. If it wasn't our support for Israel it would be the oil. If it wasn't the oil it would be our culture. If it wasn't our culture it would be our religions beliefs. If it weren't for our religious beliefs it would be their desire to take over the world. One way or another we're going to face this problem.

That's my take on it.
15 posted on 09/04/2003 2:54:04 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Calpernia
Please see posts 8 and 9.
16 posted on 09/04/2003 2:55:11 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
I did, thanks. I just can't believe that terrrorists would give a warning shot.
17 posted on 09/04/2003 2:57:30 PM PDT by TBall
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To: presidio9
Flight 587 was never truly resolved, was it?

Too much coincidences, as of late. Let's read the history books in twenty years, and fill in all of the gaps.
18 posted on 09/04/2003 2:59:06 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife ("Life isn't fair. It's fairer than death, is all.")
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To: DoughtyOne
This will be the century of the world war with allah's followers.
19 posted on 09/04/2003 3:17:11 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: TBall
Well I think you should remember that the Palestinians just created their own 52 card deck of Israeli targets for terrorist attack. Telegraphing? Let's face it, these guys are playing with a four card deck in a 52 card world.
20 posted on 09/04/2003 3:31:53 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Robert_Paulson2
Robert, I believe you might be right. One of the few hopes I have for avoiding that is wrapped up in a successful representive form of government for Iraq.

One of the biggest conserns I have, is that Colin Powell just talked Bush into UN involvement for managing Iraq. That might be the whole ball game.
21 posted on 09/04/2003 3:35:16 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: presidio9
I agree with everything you said, but that the Richard Reid shoe bomb incident occured just after Christmas 2001. Just over a month and two weeks from the Flt. 587 bombing. Not to nit pick, just to clarify those dates for accuracy. I believe had he not been caught, that plane explosion would have also been called everything BUT terrorism.
22 posted on 09/04/2003 3:49:11 PM PDT by Flipyaforreal
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To: DoughtyOne
Colin Powell just talked Bush into UN involvement for managing Iraq


Powell can't talk Bush into anything that Bush isn't predisposed towards considering...
Some folks think that nationalism is what causes wars. Powell is clearly one of those guys... and so I fear is condi and bush...

Cheney, I am not so sure of.
But then again... Cheney is NOT President Bush.


I wanted us to export the concepts of capitalism and business.
It's starting to look like we have majored on exporting our businesses instead.

hard to blame this on clinton.
23 posted on 09/04/2003 5:11:39 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: DoughtyOne
Now read this one (and thanks for the Sydney link)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/975869/posts
24 posted on 09/04/2003 5:29:47 PM PDT by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: DoughtyOne
It just seems strange to me that all of a sudden within a month to six weeks the three of us have had major outages.

I consider the power failure to be a great "dry run" for the government's preparations, and mine.

Unfortunately, I'd have to flunk the government for what it did. Or didn't do. I mostly heard, on my crank-up radio, government and company officials pat themselves on the back for how well they were handling things.

Safe water was the most immediate problem, and they issued "boil water" warnings. As long as you had a non-electric source of heat, you were okay. But there were a lot of people out buying bottled water, and the National Guard "water buffaloes" never showed up.

I think this power failure just blew out of the water the official government doctrine of "three days of supplies, and by then we will pick you up and relocate you". Relocation works for a few hundred, or a few thousand. Any problem that affects 50 million people has to be solved while leaving people in place.

I had enough bottled water bought during the "duct tape scare" that I didn't have to go out and stand in line, trying to buy some. 35 half-liter bottles for $6 at Costco meant I could remain well-hydrated, and not have to burn up energy to boil it.

So the blackout convinced me that safe water is the most important item to have, and one should plan for a supply that will last considerably longer than 3 days. Bottled water is cheap, and doesn't take energy to make safe. Don't wait for the National Guard to deliver water to you.

Also, the larger the emergency, the longer it may take to rescue you. The government is doing a disservice by emphasizing the "three day supply". Think in terms of 30 days of water, food, heat, shelter, and weaponry, and you can face all the smaller emergencies with calm.

Thank you, Great Blackout of 2003.

25 posted on 09/04/2003 5:33:13 PM PDT by 300winmag (All that is gold does not glitter.)
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To: 300winmag
I think in terms of ninety days to six months. I agree with your plan ahead strategy.

We buy the two gallon sparklets juggs and rotate.
26 posted on 09/04/2003 5:39:30 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Robert_Paulson2
I'd agree with that. Still, Bush adopts a policy and then there's a change. Then Powel goes out and touts it. Grrrrrrrrrr. I don't want the UN to snatch this operation from the jaws of success.
27 posted on 09/04/2003 5:41:13 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Calpernia
Thank you. I had read something to that effect and it influenced me to make the comments you saw earlier. I don't know about London or Sydney, but there was some interesting things taking place on our networks before the power went down.
28 posted on 09/04/2003 5:43:30 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: DoughtyOne
Trust me, I'm as suspicious as you are. There was also another incident that caught my eye.

Read this:

***"Today (brought) another escalation in the
terrorist activity of the Hamas movement when
for the first time, they launched a rocket into
a town in the southern part of the country,
Ashkelon, making an effort to hit a strategic
target that is one of our largest power
stations," Sharon said.***

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/333892.html
29 posted on 09/04/2003 6:04:55 PM PDT by Calpernia (Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does.)
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To: presidio9
BLAME it on FirstEnergy.

THEY screwed up 'big time' in their control room ...

All other 'talk' on this subject is the useless flapping of lips by know-nothing observers on the sidelines.

Errors as *BIG* as their's CAN'T be replicated by terrorists ...
30 posted on 09/04/2003 6:16:44 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: DoughtyOne
Odds are, these blackouts are ...

.. the products of independent factors.

31 posted on 09/04/2003 6:18:23 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: presidio9
www.cleveland.com/newsflash/news/index.ssf?/newsflash/get_story.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cgi?f0016_BC_BlackoutInvestigation&&news&clblackout

Transcripts show confusion before blackout struck

The Associated Press 9/4/03 2:54 AM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- One high voltage line failed, and another, and then a third. A coal-burning power plant was already out and a nuclear reactor was struggling to get enough electricity.

"We have no clue," an engineer at the FirstEnergy Corp. control center in Ohio responded when a regional grid monitor asked what was happening.

During the 35 minutes before the nation's worst blackout raced across eight states from Michigan to New York, there was a sense of confusion, uncertainty and anxiety among technicians trying to maintain control of the Ohio power system owned by FirstEnergy, according to transcripts released late Wednesday.

The company and its operation of the grid system south of Cleveland have been at the center of the investigation into the blackout, although FirstEnergy officials have said there were problems on other systems across the Midwest that afternoon, not just in its service area.

Members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee were expected to closely question FirstEnergy officials about its power line problems during the hour before the blackout and how its technicians responded when it resumed a second day of hearings into the blackout Thursday. The transcripts, copies of which were released by the committee, were expected to be a focus.

On Wednesday, Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham, who is heading the government's investigation into the outage, told the House panel that it was too early to conclude what precisely caused the blackout. "We won't jump to conclusions," he said.

Separately, the head of an industry-sponsored power grid reliability watchdog said that last year the industry had 444 transmission operating violations nationwide, including some that had a potential of causing a cascading system failure.

Michehl Gent, president of the North American Electric Reliability Council, said it was "premature" to say whether the type of violations reported in 2002 might have played a role in the blackout. Compliance with NERC's rules is voluntary and carry no penalties.

In all, the House panel released 650 pages of transcripts of telephone communications provided by the Midwest Independent Transmission System Operator, including exchanges between MISO grid monitors and FirstEnergy, during the afternoon of Aug. 14.

At about 3:32 p.m. Eastern time that day, a high-voltage line called Hanna-Juniper tripped after power was diverted to it following the failure of another line, causing an overload and the line to sag, hitting a tree.

But four minutes later in the FirstEnergy control room, technicians had no idea what just happened, according to the transcripts.

"Something strange is happening," an MISO technician, Don Hunter, told the Ohio utility, not sure what was amiss. "I've got to find my calculator," he said, trying to get a handle on the power fluctuations.

Told of the failure, a FirstEnergy technician, identified as Schwartz, said, "Daggone it. When did that happen?"

"We've got something going on," he added, promising to investigate. But for the next 20 minutes there was confusion over what lines were out and what the implication might be for the power grid.

Two hours earlier a FirstEnergy coal-burning power plant had gone down and then the nuclear reactor near Perry, Ohio, began having problems.

"They're having a hard time maintaining voltage," a FirstEnergy technician identified as Jerry Snickey told the MISO official at the other end of the phone line, referring to the nuclear unit.

The transmission failures also were still a mystery.

"We have no idea what happened," Snickey said. "We have no clue. Our computer is giving us fits too. We don't even know the status of some of the stuff (power fluctuations) around us."

Hunter, who was at the MISO grid monitoring center in Indiana, expressed frustration at the failure to diagnose the problems erupting in FirstEnergy's system.

"I called you guys like 10 minutes ago, and I thought you were figuring out what was going on there," he complained, according to the transcripts.

"Well, we're trying to," Snickey replied. "Our computer is not happy. It's not cooperating either."

"I can't get a big picture of what's going on," Hunter fretted.

A few minutes later, according to previously released information, another FirstEnergy line failed, and two minutes after that, at 4:08 p.m., utilities in Canada and the Eastern United states observed a wild power swing in a grid called the Lake Erie Loop.

At about 4:11 p.m. the blackout struck across the region.

- - - - - -

FirstEnergy is going *down* as the cause for this ...

32 posted on 09/04/2003 6:25:28 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Flight 587 was never truly resolved, was it?

Nope ... sabotage of the tail by another airline's flight attendant who was sore at her boyfriend on that flight is the current *hot* rumor going around on e-mail ...

</sarcasm>

33 posted on 09/04/2003 6:28:17 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
he us does NOT know where the failure occured

Wrong!

34 posted on 09/04/2003 6:29:40 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: presidio9
Well someone needs to tell the terrorists they didn't sabotage the power in these areas. They think they did.
35 posted on 09/04/2003 6:31:17 PM PDT by ladyinred (The left have blood on their hands.)
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To: presidio9
Since when does the FBI tell us everything we need to know?

GET a degree in one of the sciences ... SECURE a job in a technical capacity .. EXPERIENCE the 'real world' for a change ... then DO your own research ... and learn the truth for yourself ...

36 posted on 09/04/2003 6:32:27 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
terrorists CLAIMED credit.

Funny ... I don't recall a dispatch on Al Jazeera ...

ARE you making thing up by any chance?

37 posted on 09/04/2003 6:37:41 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: 300winmag
BINGO:

... "three days of supplies, and by then we will pick you up and relocate you". Relocation works for a few hundred, or a few thousand. Any problem that affects 50 million people has to be solved while leaving people in place.

38 posted on 09/04/2003 6:48:02 PM PDT by GOPJ
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To: _Jim
What's your take on that article linked in post 24?
39 posted on 09/04/2003 6:48:15 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: _Jim
no... but a lot of folks were in denial before 9/11... a small fringe percentage remain so til today...

believe what you want...
40 posted on 09/04/2003 6:50:08 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: DoughtyOne
Last week, however, a statement purporting to be from al-Qaeda taking credit for the blackout appeared on the online newsgroup Global Islamic Media, which has been known to publish statements from the group in the past, according to reports. The statement claims that cells known as the Abu Hafs al-Misri Brigades attacked two electrical facilities in the Eastern United States under the orders of terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. While the statement refused to provide details as to how the attacks were conducted, citing a need for secrecy in the event that similar attacks were to be conducted in the future, it did say that the entire operation cost $7,000.

41 posted on 09/04/2003 6:54:24 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: _Jim
could it be you made it up?


actually no... I read it here:

Last week, however, a statement purporting to be from al-Qaeda taking credit for the blackout appeared on the online newsgroup Global Islamic Media, which has been known to publish statements from the group in the past, according to reports.

The statement claims that cells known as the Abu Hafs al-Misri Brigades attacked two electrical facilities in the Eastern United States under the orders of terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden. While the statement refused to provide details as to how the attacks were conducted, citing a need for secrecy in the event that similar attacks were to be conducted in the future, it did say that the entire operation cost $7,000.

42 posted on 09/04/2003 6:55:36 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (they promised us smaller government... is it smaller yet?)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
In situations like this I have to accept that sabotage is possible. I'm not going to judge that it definately took place, but I have my misgivings. That's about as far as I can go either way. I'll never know if it was a snafu or sabotage. I just think it's avoidance to completely dismiss a sabotage possibility.
43 posted on 09/04/2003 6:59:49 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Robert_Paulson2
but a lot of folks were in denial before 9/11

believe what you want... THAT'S FINE for you folks who light torches, carry pitchforks and recite chants to 'ward' off evil or 'fix' machinery ... those of us in the OBJECTIVE WORLD base our OBSERVATIONS on factual inputs and leave 'beliefs' to those lacking the training or the faculties to comprehend such matters ...

44 posted on 09/04/2003 7:03:15 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
The statement claims that ...

Yeah yeah yeah ... AFTER THE FACT doesn't cut it in a situation like this.

Light another torch ...

45 posted on 09/04/2003 7:04:44 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: DoughtyOne
In situations like this I have to accept that sabotage is possible.

Relate ONE objective item that 'links' this to terrorism.

There isn't one shred of any kind of evidence that's out there ... pointing to a *****broad***** event like a 'generator outage' or 'computer problems' in the control room is insufficient; those things points to *no* particular cause in and by themselves ...

46 posted on 09/04/2003 7:08:57 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: Flipyaforreal
Swissair flight 111

Egypt Air flight 990

TWA flight 800

all flights out of JFK, all crashed into the Atlantic.

47 posted on 09/04/2003 7:10:19 PM PDT by MatthewViti
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To: DoughtyOne
What's your take on that article linked in post 24?

The chance that it was a virus are really, really, REALLY low, because, to quote DiNicola:

The possibility that an Internet "worm" infected FirstEnergy's transmission control-center computers is remote, said DiNicola, because the computers in the control centers are not based on Microsoft operating systems, which are most commonly the targets of such computer attacks.

"Obviously, we are going to look at all issues involving the system in the control center," he said. "But most of the virus and worms under discussion are based on Windows [manufactured by Microsoft]."


48 posted on 09/04/2003 7:14:47 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: MatthewViti
All flights out of JFK, all crashed into the Atlantic.

I think I have your common thread, your common denominator - sea water ... I hear it's a real big threat if you head east and experience catastrophic airframe failure, poor pilotage or 'nose her down' with ill intent in mind ...

49 posted on 09/04/2003 7:17:36 PM PDT by _Jim (Resources for Understanding the Blackout of 2003 - www.pserc.wisc.edu/Resources.htm)
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To: 300winmag
Iodine tablets or resublimated iodine crystals are very effective at rendering suspect water supplies potable. An easier and more practical method would be water filters, and water purifiers. Katadyn make the cadillac of portable filters, using ceramic, down to 0.2 microns.

50 posted on 09/04/2003 7:22:23 PM PDT by Freedom4US
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