A failed Israeli society is collapsing

The International Herald Tribune - first appeared in English in The Forward (New York), was adapted ^ | Saturday, September 6, 2003 | Avraham Burg

[US admirer]

The writer was speaker of the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, from 1999 to 2003 and is currently a Labor Party member of the Knesset. This comment, which first appeared in English in The Forward (New York), was adapted by the writer from an article that appeared in Yediot Ahronot and was translated by J.J. Goldberg.

Although I am not familiar with the author, I asume he is a respected Isreali politician with no particular axe to grind, although the Arab American Institute has labelled him a racist for remarks made on Thursday, August 2,on "Nightline" (so I would take it he is unlikley to be labelled a Palestinian sympathizer or dupe). Regretfully, I believe he makes much sense. I am posting this for the benefit of those who have not had the opportunity to consider his opinions rather than to argue the issue with those who disagree.

[Alouette]

I asume he is a respected Isreali politician with no particular axe to grind

You assume wrong. He is a bitter, angry old leftist who is still seething that his party was knocked out of power after the Oslo debacle.

[Alouette]

MAJOR CHUNKY HURL ALERT!

FREEPmail me to be added or removed from this Mideast ping list.

[Mr. Mojo]

He is a bitter, angry old leftist who is still seething that his party was knocked out of power after the Oslo debacle.

Accurate summation.

[proxy_user]

Leftists do not usually call for facing reality. He must be really desperate.

A lot of what he says actually makes sense. It is rather similar to my take on the problems Israel faces. I am a white Protestant old-line conservative.

[Alouette]

A lot of what he says actually makes sense.

He puts all the blame on Israel, and none on the Palestinians. How does that make sense?

[wideawake]

This op-ed is yet another recycling of the "root causes" argument which underpins every leftist viewpoint.

It's not a new view and it belongs in the same category as "9/11 happened because America is mean."

It's a pathetic, childish argument no matter what rehtorical flourishes it is couched in.

[pabianice]

You forgot the

Leftist Anti-Semitic Double Standard Hurl Alert!

[US admirer]

http://www.aaiusa.org/pr/release08-06-01.htm

Israeli Speaker calls Palestinians "Unhuman"
Official Wrongly Uses U.S. Visit for Incitement

August 6, 2001
Washington - In a letter to Israeli Knesset Speaker Avraham Burg, AAI President James Zogby condemned as "racist" the Speaker’s recent remarks about Palestinians on ABC’s "Nightline." Speaker Burg’s appearance on the program took place during his recent visit to Washington.

The text of the letter, including Speaker Burg’s excerpted remarks, follows:

On Thursday, August 2, you appeared on the U.S. television program "Nightline" and described Palestinians as "people you do not want your daughter to get married to" and "unhuman." Frankly, I was stunned. These remarks were racist and quite painful to hear.

At a time when Israelis and Palestinians are engaged in a deteriorating cycle of violence, it is inappropriate to fan the flames of violence by engaging in such incitement.

As the United States works to bring calm to the region, it needs Israeli and Palestinian leaders to support a dialogue of peace not one of hatred.

If Palestinians and Israelis are ever to reach a just and lasting peace, then they must begin by recognizing the other’s humanity. I ask that in the future, you reflect on your position and use it for positive outreach instead of your own personal feelings about whether or not Palestinians share your ‘humanity.’

AAI is a national organization committed to the civic and political empowerment of Americans of Arab descent.

[jpl]

He doesn't make any sense at all, and he's in complete denial. The issue of the "settlements" is a convenient ruse for the Palestinians, but the fact is that they consider all of Israel to be "occupied territory", and they have no intention of making peace with the Jews under their current leadership system.

[anotherview]

Avraham Burg is on the left wing of the Labour party. He was rejected by the party when he ran for the post of party leader, with the voters preferring the more moderate Binyamin ben Eliezer.

I completely disagree with MK Burg's assessment of the state of Israeli society and Zionism. In my view both are alive and healthy. Most Israelis, and most Americans who are in Israel often, seem to be very optimistic about Israel's future. The pessimism comes from two corners: the left wing, who no longer has the influence it once had, and indeed very little influence at all; and American and other diaspora Jews who have not been to Israel lately and make their judgements based on what they see on CNN and the nightly news.

I agree with Avraham Burg on only one fundemental point: there must be a separation between Palestinians and Jews. This does not require "transfer", the mass expulsion that Burg talks about and National Union advocates, nor does it require adandoning all of Judea and Samaria.

Prime Minister Sharon has said that Israel cannot rule over 3.5 million Palestinians, and he even dared use the Palestinian's favorite word: occupation. That does not mean that Israel must succumb to terror.

I have long been an advocate of separation, or as then Prime Minister Ehud Barak put it, "Us here. Them there." However, that has never meant a retreat to 1967 borders. IMHO, those in Labour who advocate separation, including Mr. Burg, fail to realize that any unilateral redrawing of Israel's borders must be done in a way that will not be seen as weakness by the Arabs. Weakness, as President Bush said in his speech, invites more terrorism.

Similarly, the right doesn't get it either. They read the biblical promise and history and assume that the Jewish people have a G-d given right to Judea, Samaria, and Gaza. Look at those biblical maps again. Most of Gaza isn't included, and staying there serves little purpose other than to create a flashpoint. Judea and Samaria, as well as parts of Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon were promised to the Jewish people, and will be Jewish when meshiach comes, not because we put up settlements next to Arab cities.

I believe Prime Minister Sharon must finish the security fence. It should take in settlements that were built for security reasons along the green line, major blocs of Jewish population, and all of Jerusalem. Unlike Mr. Burg I believe that the IDF can seriously damage the terrorists' ability to strike Israel. Once that is done and the fence is completed we can leave the Palestinians in their walled-in pseudo-state to do whatever they will so long as they do not threaten Israel. The IDF will, of course, deal with any threats.

Once the Palestinians are walled in and basically powerless perhaps they will see the value of compromise. In any case, Israel will no longer be ruling over them, nor will we be providing services to them as we do now. Whatever the fate of the Palestinian Arabs, it will be their own doing.

I must ask US admirer: Have you been to Israel lately? Have you lived in Israel? What is the basis of your agreement with MK Burg?

Sometimes I think I should give up my career and start a new, centrist political movement. Then I realize that nobody will listen to me anyway :)

[Jim Noble]

The writer was speaker of the Knesset, Israel's Parliament, from 1999 to 2003 and is currently a Labor Party member of the Knesset.

Maybe that's why Israel is in such trouble?

[anotherview]

Labour controls 19 seats in the Knesset out of 120. Mr. Burg's views do not represent the majority of Labour, IMHO. How do his views or his seat in the Knesset translate to Israel being "in trouble"? He has little or no influence on Israeli policy, hence the bitterness of his tone.

If you can read the original Hebrew you should.

[philosofy123]

The Palestinian resistance was never as deadly as it is today. The major reason is the resistance movement has taken on a zealot Islamic fanatic religious hate. The hate has infected both sides, and even traveled across the oceans to infect America (born again evangalists), and Asia Indonesia, Pakistan, the Phillipines...). Is there an end to that hate? Or a cure to that disease? The writer made several good points; however, we all have to start thinking outside the box. If we are going to be blinded with that hate, or assume it does not exist as a factor in our attitude towards others, we will be callous in rendering a moral guidance to our people.

[dennisw]

Although I am not familiar with the author, I asume he is a respected Isreali politician with no particular axe to grind............

WRONG! He's a leftist fool who blames it all on settlers. Fact is Jihad continues even if every Jew is uprooted from the West Bank. You know this, I know this, he pretends he does not know this.

[Napoleon Solo]

It figures that the story would be picked up by the PARIS FRANCE based International Herald Tribune!!

[witnesstothefall]

http://www.wzo.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=7

[SJackson]

Jim McDermott, I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Sheila Jackson-Lee, 2nd , I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Howard Dean , I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

John Conyers, I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

David Bonior ,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Barbara Lee,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Terry McAuliffe,I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Patty Murray ,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

You get the idea. If you inhabit the far left, he's a respected Isreali politician with no particular axe to grind. Absent knowledge of a situation, it's dangerous to make assumptions.

[SJackson]

Jim McDermott, I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Sheila Jackson-Lee, 2nd , I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Howard Dean , I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

John Conyers, I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

David Bonior ,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Barbara Lee,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Terry McAuliffe,I asume he is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

Patty Murray ,I asume she is a respected Isreali American politician with no particular axe to grind.

You get the idea. If you inhabit the far left, he's a respected Isreali politician with no particular axe to grind. Absent knowledge of a situation, it's dangerous to make assumptions.

[SJackson]

18 not meant for USAdmirer, not you