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Army troops, budget stretched to the limit (Long but well worth the reading)
GovExec.com ^ | Sep 8, 03 | James Kitfield

Posted on 09/09/2003 8:23:09 AM PDT by SLB

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To: Salgak
To quote Apollo 13 astronaut James Lovell: "Houston, we've got a problem. . ."

Outstanding article.

Unfortunately, the problem did not end with X42. The current SecDef has invested a lot of political capital in the current force levels and "re-visioning". His recalcitrance in adjustments are leading down the path to employment policies which are digging the hole ever deeper and putting at risk the ability to respond both in depth and breadth.

You are correct ... retention is the first strokes of the handwriting on the wall - and Rumsfeld is gagging Daniel.

21 posted on 09/09/2003 9:58:19 AM PDT by LTCJ
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To: SLB
bump
22 posted on 09/09/2003 10:01:09 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: Salgak
and the Active and Guard/Reserve retention is already starting to drop. . .

The money for the extra divisions is being diverted into Star Wars and other boondoggles. Soldiers don't kick back part of their pay as campaign contributions - the MIC does.

23 posted on 09/09/2003 10:23:50 AM PDT by Shermy
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To: CheneyChick
I understand completely. However, those who Serve with Honor, expect to be TREATED with Honor in return. I left the USAF in 1989 because I tired of an endless series of broken committments. . .at a base that had ZERO enlisted re-ups for 7 straight years, and the OFFICER retention rate of Indefinite Reserve and Regular Officers was around 30%.

Maybe we see things from a different angle: to me, committment is a two-way street. . . .
24 posted on 09/09/2003 12:07:02 PM PDT by Salgak (don't mind me: the orbital mind control lasers are making me write this. . .)
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To: D. Brian Carter
until there is a solution for the problems of long and back-to-back deployments, the PROFESSIONAL SOLDIER is going to have to suck it up and DO HIS JOB.

Yes, but starting in '91, the Army went to a weird 'family friendly atmosphere' where single soldiers generally got less benefits and more work in order for the babymakers, single mothers, caring fathers and Assorted Dreck to spend more time with their fat wives or crowbait children.

It was miserable--one of the reasons I left active duty: I didn't have kids or a wife and the Army culture just didn't suit me as a single guy--having to go to all the 'family-day' shite and Consideration Of Others Classes and crap.

Heck, I would have been, and still would, be happy to deploy indefinitely to somewhere 'hot'. As an officer, I was stuck reviewing Family Care Plans for all the single mothers and renting a dunk-tank or 'fun-jump' for all the family crap! It sucked!

The problem is: The job of most professional soldiers, in the Army, for the past 13 year has been to take care of families and crap!

I'm telling ya, man, as a single officer without a harpy or a rug-biter at home I was almost an outcast...

25 posted on 09/09/2003 12:29:56 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: chookter
From what the old-timers tell me, the old slogan was "if the Army wanted you to have a wife, they would've issued you one". Things have changed.

The thing is, when one enlists, you know to a large extent what to expect (and much of it is to never believe anything the Army tells you). I've already been told by dozens of people, active, inactive and retired, never believe anything you are told in the Army until it actually happens. I enlisted in May, and start BCT in about one month... and I'm quite resolved at this point to basically take whatever is thrown at me. I signed on the line, I have a duty to perform, and I'm gonna do that to the damned best of my abilities, within the constraints that exist.

I realize the obstacles, the complaints that I've seen and heard from others, the inconveniences, that go along with being in the US military. I've made the decision to tolerate those things, with complete knowledge of some of the hardships that I will face, and you certainly won't see me whining to ABC News about anything.
26 posted on 09/09/2003 12:54:44 PM PDT by D. Brian Carter
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To: D. Brian Carter
I signed on the line, I have a duty to perform, and I'm gonna do that to the damned best of my abilities, within the constraints that exist.

Yeah.... Wait until you are stuck answering phones and entering information into a computer for an Admin Specialist while she goes off and breastfeeds her bastard child. You'll wonder if it is worth it at that point....

27 posted on 09/09/2003 1:17:40 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: chookter
I'm telling ya, man, as a single officer without a harpy or a rug-biter at home I was almost an outcast...

Even those of us with wife and children who opted out of the "family friendly" activities were outcasts. So much so that I too hung it up. I was told by my rater that my priorities were wrong: God, family, job. Now I am working for the Army (have been for 18 years), have a great family and those are my priorities. I might add that I consider my career as a civilian to be more than successful, I have a whole "I love me wall" of doo dads from Colonels and above for supporting the mission of the Army as a civilian.

28 posted on 09/09/2003 1:23:34 PM PDT by SLB
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To: SLB
Even those of us with wife and children who opted out of the "family friendly" activities were outcasts. So much so that I too hung it up.

There ya go.... I hated that kind of crap!

The dopey army created this family emphasis and now are suffering because of it.

Even at my defense contractor job, the Air Force tries to force us into the happy-clappy-family-friendly crap. Fortunately, as a civilian, I can pretty much give them the middle finger...

29 posted on 09/09/2003 1:32:25 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: SLB
Where is that peace dividend?
30 posted on 09/09/2003 9:53:16 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: jospehm20
Yes - leave the Balkans NOW!

From the article:

"The CBO report said that creating and training two additional divisions equaling 20,000 new troops would take five years."

And the crap will hit the fan in late 2004 when less than a year between rotations will push troops back into Iraq.

And then there's the FIVE YEAR refresh rate. And even that is optimistic using the 5 to 7 thousand being trained a year in a "down" recruting period.

Let's see, shortfall of 20K in early 2004 (due to falling reenlistments) plus FIVE YEARS = healing (only) beginning in 2009.

Rumsfeld better get a clue and get one fast!

Holy $hit, Batman.

31 posted on 09/09/2003 10:00:50 PM PDT by Happy2BMe (LIBERTY has arrived in Iraq - Now we can concentrate on HOLLYWEED!)
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To: SLB
This is not new !

The Air Force has had this problem for 10 years.

During stinkmisters 8 years a typical Air Force term of enlistment would go like this: Spend 3 months in Saudi, come home for three months then deploy to Europe for 6 months. Go home for a week or two and go to the middle east again or Africa etc.. We were crying for help but were told to suck it up. The Generals were lying to congress telling them all was good but self inflicted death rates, rapes, child abuse, wife beatings etc. were out of control. People were working 20 hour days and pilots were popping official pills to keep them going that would get a civilian arrested.

OK, stinkmister was the commander in chief then so it was OK then but now it's a problem !

32 posted on 09/09/2003 10:18:52 PM PDT by america-rules (I'm one proud American right now !)
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To: D. Brian Carter
The war's not over, bro, and until it is, the soldier's job is to follow orders and deal with the trials and tribulations of being a soldier.

You probably don't mean to sound a little calous, but I'm afraid you do (just a little). Yes, our soldiers follow orders -- no one is saying they don't. But when their enlistment is up, no one orders them to re-enlist -- that's a personal choice. Our soldiers are proud to serve, and they'll serve long and hard when needed. They also want to know they aren't being asked to shoulder an unfair share of the burden without good cause. So I applaud anyone in the Pentagon or Army leadership who is seriously looking as ways to keep the burden manageable for our troops.

33 posted on 09/10/2003 8:44:14 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: SLB
This is a good post. But I DO see some excessive pessimism here (the so-called cry-baby approach).

The article overlooks several ways we could get more troops quickly to help in a tight spot:

- Call up one or more National Guard divisions.

- Use Marines in peacekeeping roles.

- Withdraw from some peacekeeping roles where the U. S. isn't essential (Bosnia, Kosovo, Siani desert).

- Count on other services (Air Force, Navy, Marines) and other countries (South Korea, Japan) to free up some Army troops from the defense of S. Korea.

I also wonder if we have too many Army troops in training or "overhead" positions -- I suspect 5% to 10% of these slots might be cut without much harm, and that frees up a lot of soldiers.

Yeah, our troops are stretched thin. But just because they are stretched, it doesn't mean we have to immediately take the (expensive) step of expanding the Army without looking at other creative options.

34 posted on 09/10/2003 8:53:39 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: 68skylark
If you look at some of my other comments, you will see that I acknowledge that there are problems, some of them serious, and they do need to be fixed, or our military is going to have some major repercussions in the near future.

That being said, I know the problems, I'm aware of the dangers and inconveniences that go with the territory, yet I still signed on that dotted line. I know how soldiers get yanked around, being told one thing and another thing happens, being given a "ship-home date" and having it delayed, yet I still signed on that dotted line. I know that the risk is very real that I will be overseas at least six months out of every year or more for the next few years, yet I still signed on that dotted line.

I have made a commitment, and in the years that I've agreed to take on these duties, I have to expect the same things that I'm already aware of. Once my portion of the commitment is over, if I decide that it's not what I enjoy, not what I expected, that I was treated unfairly or unjustly, then I won't re-up.

I'm not saying there aren't problems that need to be solved, or that there aren't issues that need to be addressed. What I am saying is that everyone signs up with full knowledge and awareness of what could possibly lie ahead of them, or if they don't they are just lazy, in denial, or irresponsible.
35 posted on 09/10/2003 8:57:11 AM PDT by D. Brian Carter
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To: D. Brian Carter
Excellent comments. I applaud your good attitude. I think you and I probably feel the same when we see a soldier quoted in the press complaining about his duty -- it bugs the hell out of me. They signed up willingly and took the benefits, and they should fulfill their obligation willingly.

I didn't know you are in the service -- that makes your comments sound a whole lot less calous. I'm sorry I made that observation.

(I too could easily be deployed before long. I know it can be tough, but I'm proud to do my duty.)

36 posted on 09/10/2003 9:03:27 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: D. Brian Carter
Sorry for my misspellings, also. I'm not really illiterate -- my brain just isn't working right today. I see you're off to training soon -- it's a good, life-changing experience!
37 posted on 09/10/2003 9:12:35 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: 68skylark
it's a good, life-changing experience!

That's what I'm hoping for... I can't wait. I'm quite eager and excited, and the past few months (I signed up late April/early May) have just dragged by.

By the way, "there's more than corn, in Indiana"...

38 posted on 09/10/2003 9:16:52 AM PDT by D. Brian Carter
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To: SLB
Thanks for the article and ping...a very good read with minimal "woe is me". Along with others on this thread, I thought the "peace dividend" was just so much baloney. The world is/was still a dangerous place and the military is the only force immediately available to stand in that breach. Using that drawdown to free funds to pay off political constituencies with social services goodies was an absolutely unprincipled, unpatriotic, and wrong-headed boondoggle.
39 posted on 09/10/2003 4:37:19 PM PDT by T-Bird45
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