Top U.S. border official questions California driver licenses

modesto bee ^ | 9-10-03 | elliot spagat

[MineralMan]

"Yes, that would be the easiest thing to do, unfortunately, the majority of Americans would scream bloody murder, that the Government was attempting to restrict their right to move freely in and out of the US."

No, not the majority. Just those who are dead set on not "showing their papers" to govt. employees. And they're the same ones screaming bloody murder about loose immigration policies. Feh!

[B Knotts]

I doubt that many would mind showing a passport when crossing an international border. I know I wouldn't.

[MineralMan]

"I have a problem. I need someone to clean my apartment. But I don't think I should be hiring illegals. What's a bachelor to do?
"

Look in your Yellow Pages for cleaning services, such as Merry Maids or some such. Contract with them for such services. You'll find that they don't use illegals.

[Leatherneck_MT]

I would like to know why Federal Marshals weren't standing at Davis's door to arrest that treasonous SOB the moment he signed that Document.


GRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[MineralMan]

"Folks, there's lots of states in the U.S. whose licenses are no guarantee at all that their holder is a U.S. Citizen."

You are correct. In fact, almost all states let legal aliens on work visas, student visas, and permanent resident visas to obtain driver's licenses. Otherwise, how would they drive here? Your driver's license is no proof of citizenship at all.

Get your passport and keep it current. It's so simple.

[MineralMan]

"If Califorians, unlike all other americans, are required to show a passport to enter the US from Mexico, the whole legislature just might get lynched"

Not so. You don't need a passport to enter Mexico, nor to return from Mexico in any state. That's a Federal thingie. Just ask folks from Arizona and Texas. They cross the border all the time.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

Bottom line.

No law exists that requires a US citizen to present any document, for entry from Canada, Mexico or some of the other adjacent countries.

The only document requirement law that does exist, is the State Department law that requires Passports for entry from outside the Western Hemisphere, and that law, at the request of the State Department, will not be enforced.

So, in essence, there is no law requiring a US citizen to present any document for entry into the United States.

While you can cut and past statements from the State Department and INS web sites (that are false), you can not cite me a section of law.

While you have not traveled outside the United States, since 1999, I have inspected over 50,000 United States citizens, in the past 5 years, who were returning from their trips abroad. Not one was required to show me anything. Although I asked for a passport or an ID and birth certificate, none of those US citizens was required by law to show me anything.

[MineralMan]

"While you have not traveled outside the United States, since 1999, I have inspected over 50,000 United States citizens, in the past 5 years, who were returning from their trips abroad. Not one was required to show me anything. Although I asked for a passport or an ID and birth certificate, none of those US citizens was required by law to show me anything."

Sounds like you do this for a living. I still maintain that all US Citizens travelling outside the US should have a valid passport in hand, just to be able to prove their citizenship, either here or in another country. I would not travel outside the US without it. That's especially true if you are a citizen with any sort of accent not associated with some part of the US.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

No, not the majority.

Yes, the majority.

The vast majority of Americans are against a National ID, which is what the Passport is.

And since the passports of the future will have biometric identifiers, even more folks will be against them.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

Sounds like you do this for a living.

I do.

[MineralMan]

"The vast majority of Americans are against a National ID, which is what the Passport is. "

That's just silly. Why would any US Citizen be opposed to having a passport? You're going to have to show me some data that shows that the "vast majority" opposes passports.

Do you have one?

[dirtboy]

While you can cut and past statements from the State Department and INS web sites (that are false), you can not cite me a section of law.

You, in turn, have not cited law either. So we're at an impasse.

[DumpsterDiver]

taxed2death - I see a serious case of common sense washing over the power elite of this country.

I don't.

gubamyster - Yes, but will they do anything more than pay lip service to the problem of illegals.

The "lip service" I foresee will be:

"In the name of security, I grant thee amnesty."

[DumpsterDiver]

I have a problem. I need someone to clean my apartment. But I don't think I should be hiring illegals. What's a bachelor to do?

Go find something to do that both you and the horse you rode in on will enjoy.

If your post was sarcasm, then I withdraw my suggestion.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

You, in turn, have not cited law either.

I can't site what does not exist.

No law exist that requires you to have any documentation for entry from Mexico, therefore a verbal declaration is all you need.

I do this for a living, I know exactly what a US Citizen must show me. Which is nothing.

[Travis Bickel/Marine Inspector]

Do you have one?

Currently, No.

In the past, I had a diplomatic passport.

[dirtboy]

No law exist that requires you to have any documentation for entry from Mexico, therefore a verbal declaration is all you need.

So, then, two points - how do you tell an Englishman from an American when both are crossing from Matamoras? And two - has anyone actually NOT provided proof of citizenship and still entered the country?

[dirtboy]

No law exist that requires you to have any documentation for entry from Mexico, therefore a verbal declaration is all you need.

So, then, two points - how do you tell an Englishman from an American when both are crossing from Matamoras? And two - has anyone actually NOT provided proof of citizenship and still entered the country?

[dirtboy]

No law exist that requires you to have any documentation for entry from Mexico, therefore a verbal declaration is all you need.

From the Burea of Citizenship and Immigration Services website:

What Documents Must You Present?

A U.S. citizen must present a passport if traveling from outside of the western hemisphere (The western hemisphere is North, Central, and South America). If traveling from inside the Western Hemisphere, any proof of U.S. citizenship that clearly establishes identity and nationality is permitted such as a birth record or baptismal record.

Sorry, you lose.

[dirtboy]

I can't site what does not exist.

Too bad for your position that it does exist: Sec. 235.1 Scope of examination. (Section revised effective 4/1/97; 62 FR 10312)

(a) General. Application to lawfully enter the United States shall be made in person to an immigration officer at a U.S. port-of-entry when the port is open for inspection, or as otherwise designated in this section.

(b) U.S. citizens. A person claiming U.S. citizenship must establish that fact to the examining officer's satisfaction and must present a U.S. passport if such passport is required under the provisions of 22 CFR part 53. If such applicant for admission fails to satisfy the examining immigration officer that he or she is a U.S. citizen, he or she shall thereafter be inspected as an alien.

And this law allows interpretation by the State Department and/or the INS as to what satisfies this requirement.