France says no to Christianity in Constitution

EUObserver ^ | 09.14.2003 | Marcin Frydrych

[nickcarraway]

Despite strong lobbying from the Vatican and representatives of the Orthodox Church in Europe, the preamble of the draft treaty establishing the Constitution for Europe - produced by the European Convention in June - has resisted any reference to Christianity.

France along with Turkey are the main countries contending such a reference.

"France is a lay state and as such she does not have a habit of calling for insertions of a religious nature into constitutional texts", the French President told reporters at a visit in Quintos de Moro where he met Spanish Prime Minister, José Maria Aznar.

"The lay character of French institutions does not allow them to accept a religious reference" in a domestic or EU constitution, Mr Chirac concluded.

Several countries, Italy, Spain and Poland among them, have backed the idea of having a reference to Christianity included in the Constitution.

Warsaw intends to raise this issue in its four-point strategy for the Intergovernmental Conference which begins next month in Rome.

[Savage Beast]

France will be an Islamic theocracy before long. They're thinking ahead.

[concerned about politics]

Chirac is not a social conservative - but is very much an economic one.

He has no choice. He shared the wealth, now no body has any.

[STD]

The average intelligence of the FR poster has sure gone to hell. Try to splain yourself, dolt?

[sal002a]

Instead of name-calling..explain what you mean.

[BobS]

France is a terrible pothole of a third-world state. Those were my impressions 15 years ago.

[Noachian]

I missed this. When did the supreme court issue an opinion that advocated for secularism?

You must have been away for awhile.

Let's start with the First Amendment clause that prohibits Congress, and by extension the SC, from making law "RESPECTING" religion. Look up the word "respecting". Simply put it means hands off.

How about a "wall of separation between church and state" that exists nowhere in the Constitution, but was taken, out of context, from a Letter Jefferson wrote.

The newest and latest creation of the High Court is the "incorporation" of the First Amendment into the Fourteenth Amendment, but only as it pertains to religion. The other four First Amendment rights are untouched, but religion gets screwed.

What's coming up in the future? European precedents being used to "supplement" the Constitution especially in areas of religion. These we'll have to wait for, but they should be interesting.

BTW, have you any recent High Court rulings favoring a religious case? I'd like to hear about them.

[snooker]

Why is anyone surprised. Just one state, implies one big state to fail.

I hope the EU self destructs. The way Europe was before all this socialist crapola was just fine with me.

Isn't France already in violation of the EU debt standards?

[The Great RJ]

The Pope should threaten to send his Swiss Guards to Paris. I'm sure the French would then quickly capitulate.

[Noachian]

Does anyone know why America has only one UN representative(even though it has fifty states), and the EU has one representative for each of the countries that make up the EU?

If the EU wants to be one European state shouldn't it get just one vote like America does?

Or, maybe America should get fifty representatives at the UN.

[Michael121]

He is not conservative in any form of the word. He is a socialist. That is why France is going broke. That is why 11,000+ people died in a heat wave. They sit around and wait for someone else to turn on some air.

Ask any Vet who went through France. They sat on the rubble waiting for someone to clean it up. Our GI's had more respect for the Germans. They would be out in the rubble seperating bricks that could be used to rebuild. The German POW's here in the US worked hard in fields. The French have more days off than most people work. That is why most Businesses go to England.

France thinks itself important. Spell it different, remove the R and replace the A and you get Impotent. Which is France.

[eleni121]

I can see why Turkey would have some objections to Christianity being included in the European charter, as they are predominantly Muslim

Actually Turkey is 99.9% Muslim after the genocides of the millions of Christians in the 20th century. Christians lived in thier homelands i present day Turkey for a thousand years before the muslim imperialistic hordes decimated the lands in the east. And France never once helped the Christians living in slavery under the Turk Ottomans all those years.

May France go to h**l

[TopQuark]

the preamble of the draft treaty establishing the Constitution for Europe - produced by the European Convention in June - has resisted any reference to Christianity.

I am Jewish, and I cannot even convey fully how outraged I am at this fascist arrogance.

The cathedrals and other marvels of architecture, the magnificent art, the music of Bach and Handel --- what inspired them if not Christianity? To deny this is simply outrageous.

They were not even asked to say that Christianity plays a significant role now. They were asked to acknowledge in the constitution, to wit, "the role that Christianity played in the history of Europe." It is in this context that Enlightenment is mentioned.

Manipulation of facts is what makes something propaganda. This denial of the fundamental role of Christianity in the formation and development of European nations and states qualifies as such. That is why I find it justifiable to call it fascist propaganda.

[TopQuark]

I ment to ping you in the previous post.