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To: Sir Gawain
The War Between the States was only peripherally about slavery, no matter what anyone says. The war was fought to decide if we live in a nation with a centralized National government under which the States exist as mere subdivisions of the whole or if we live in a nation with a limited Federal government under which the States are sovereign and only delegate some power to the Federal government and reserve all other powers for themselves and their citizens. With the outcome of the war, the 14th Amendment, and precedent which has been set ever since, it is obvious that the side of the centralized National government is the victor and that annoying things like the 10th Amendment and such should just be ignored as they are irrelevant.

And it is all so very unfortunate

14 posted on 09/19/2003 11:16:24 AM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Spiff
The war was fought to decide if we live in a nation with a centralized National government under which the States exist as mere subdivisions of the whole

or if we live in a nation with a limited Federal government under which the States are sovereign and only delegate some power to the Federal government and reserve all other powers for themselves and their citizens.


With the outcome of the war, the 14th Amendment, and precedent which has been set ever since, it is obvious that the side of the centralized National government is the victor and that annoying things like the 10th Amendment and such should just be ignored as they are irrelevant.
-spiff-



Not so. -- Neither fed nor state governments are 'sovereign'.

The tenth amendments words are clear.

Some powers are delegated to the feds, some to the states, but all are reserved to the people.
--- And all such delegated powers are subject to amendment by the people.

We the people, in effect, retain all such powers/rights, as they are inalienable. -- Liberties cannot be amended away.
-- We are sovereign individuals, and our governments are not 'sovereign' over us.

27 posted on 09/19/2003 12:15:30 PM PDT by tpaine ( I'm trying to be Mr Nice Guy, but politics keep getting in me way. ArnieRino for Governator)
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To: Spiff
The War Between the States was only peripherally about slavery, no matter what anyone says.

"No matter what anyone says" makes it sound like the causes of the war are more a matter of faith or will or what people need to believe, not about facts or reason or things we can rationally resolve.

People today can say that slavery was "only peripherally" involved because it's no longer a live issue. Slavery was very much alive and heatedly argued in the 1850s and 1860s. After the war, when it was no longer possible to argue for slavery, ex-confederates backpedalled and emphasised other issues.

Was slavery the only thing on everyone's mind in 1860? No, though it dwarfed other political issues. Was it the only reason men enlisted to fight? No. They signed up for other reasons, but war wouldn't have come without the controversy over slavery. We can't understand what happened without understanding and recognizing the significance of slavery. More here.

30 posted on 09/19/2003 12:42:02 PM PDT by x ("What did we go to war for, if not to protect our property" Robert M.T. Hunter Senator from Virginia)
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