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1 posted on 09/19/2003 6:25:43 PM PDT by hope
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To: hope
If today’s Jews aren’t descended from Abraham, but are instead a mixed race of people whose only common connection is religion, then they are not a ‘nation’ in any identifiable sense.

You mean the way the United States, a mixed race of people whose only common connection is political, are not a 'nation' in any identifiable sense?

2 posted on 09/19/2003 6:35:47 PM PDT by Restorer (Never let schooling interfere with your education.)
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To: hope
Great Britain, France, Spain and Italy would all four flunk similar tests of pedigreed purity.
3 posted on 09/19/2003 6:39:48 PM PDT by .cnI redruM (There are two certainties. Death and Texas.)
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To: hope
From the Koran's description of him it arises that he lived in the southern Hejaz [Saudi Arabia], near Mecca."

----------------------

Anyone who believes the historical or any other accuracy of the Koran on anything except intent to destroy the outside world is nuts.

4 posted on 09/19/2003 6:39:52 PM PDT by RLK
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To: hope
What matters is not genetics but culture. I am sure that throughout the Diaspora that Jewish "blood" has become watered over the centuries. But what matters is that millions around the world still call themselves Jews.

What is an "Irishman"? The Vikings and the English did their "watering" of Irish "blood" but the culture and mentality remained. Same with American Blacks. Genetics will always take a back seat to culture.

5 posted on 09/19/2003 6:40:21 PM PDT by Burkeman1 ((If you see ten troubles comin down the road, Nine will run into the ditch before they reach you.))
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To: hope; yonif
Arab historian Jarid al-Kidwa told an Arab TV audience, "all the events surrounding Kings Saul, David and Rehoboam occurred in Yemen, and no Hebrew remnants were found in Israel, for a very simple reason--because they were never here."

Arab historian Jarid al-Kidwa is a liar.

. As Allah is my witness, in my blood flows more of the Children of Israel and the ancient Hebrews than in the blood of Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu."

During the 2 millenia that the Jewish diaspora was resident in Europe and Asia it is almost certain that they have absorbed indoeuropean blood, and others as well. This does not change the fact that from the sacking of Jerusalem on a recognizable Jewish population has maintained its identity, as much as anything due to laws meant to marginalize them.

But whatever their precise blood line, the people who went into the camps in the forties weren't being exterminated for their Turkish roots, but for their adherence to the God of Abraham according to their ancient rites. And the people who survived those camps are the very ones who pushed their way into Palestine as refugees and settlers.

Why members of a religion that prides itself on its hospitality could not welcome the refugees from the death camps into their protection is a mystery we can explore another time.

The slaughter of these people as Jews establishes that, for the world and for the Jews themselves, they are Jews. To say otherwise is evil foolishness.

To be truthful, Abraham was born somewhere near Basra, and spent his life wandering what is now Iraq. But the Jews aren't claiming Iraq, just the sliver that is modern Israel.

And it is true that the Church had come to see itself as the inheritors of God's promises to the jews, since Israel had ceased to exist. And Anglo Saxons have long considered themselves to be, by some mysterious means, God's Chosen, and it is well embedded in the American psyche that we are somehow the Chosen. This peculiarity of American psychology, though, had the strange effect of wedding Americans to the defense of Israel, the "other" Chosen People. American soldiers opened up the death camps, and the effect on the American Church was profound. And the rebirth of Israel sent shock waves through the American Church. Why it didn't have the same effect on the European Church, I can't explain. But from the late forties on, the American Church has seen the defense of Israel as its unique mission.

And woe be unto any politician that doesn't take it into account, if he hopes to hold the evangelical vote. My German buddy once explained to me that Germans understood US support for Israel as resulting from the vast Jewish lobby. He didn't know what to think when I expained that the size of the Jewish vote here is miniscule compared to the evangelical vote, and it is the evangelicals here who are the most determined defenders of Israel.

I don't think he got it.

8 posted on 09/19/2003 6:57:36 PM PDT by marron
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To: hope
I have noticed that you regularly hear of Jewish people who have the same names one sees in the Bible. For instance Saul or Sauls, Simon, Lazarus etc.

I have no doubt these people are descended from the same people who were in the Bible. Of course many names sound like they are descended from pawn shop owners such as Goldstein, Silver, Pearl, Pearlmutter etc.

11 posted on 09/19/2003 7:12:34 PM PDT by yarddog
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To: hope
Here's a link to an amazing scientific genetic study of the heritage of the Jewish people and their native relationship to the Middle East, "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East".
The topic in the Table of Contents labled "Discussion" provides a summary:

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v69n5/013033/013033.html

12 posted on 09/19/2003 7:25:27 PM PDT by stradivarius
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To: hope
Does anyone think God does not know who the remanent of Israel is today? And is it only coincidental that a group of people identified as the descendents of Abraham have congregated together in the Land as the modern nation of Israel?

"According to Bible prophecy, during the reign of the antichrist, the Temple will be rebuilt and full Temple worship restored." Where does it say that? Or more directly, no where does the Bible in fact say the Temple will be rebuilt.

Daniel 9:27 says that approximately three and one-half years before the return of Jesus Christ, the Prince of Daniel 9:26 who is commonly identified as the Anti-Christ (probably correctly; perhaps the False Prophet) will cause termination of the sacrificial worship system.

Although many Christians argue that the sacrifical worship system will not be conducted until the Temple is reconstructed, thus infering that 9:27 is forecasting reconstruction, nothing in the Bible says so.

To the contrary, we would argue that the sacrifices were conducted in a tent from 1461 through 970 BC and that they could be conducted again, absent the Temple. Point is, Christians and others should not be misled to believe Temple reconstruction is an essential element of the Plan--Bible does not say it is.

Issiah Chapter 18 is a forecast of the return of an ensign to the Temple Mount from Ethiopia; there is a fair case that the Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia and its return, coupled with perfection of the purification incidents would provide a backdrop for resumption of the sacrifices on the Temple Mount without reconstruction of a building. "In that day I will raise up the tabernacle of David . . . . " Amos 9:11. It should be noted that the tabernacle of David in which the sacrifices were conducted prior to Construction of the first Temple has been found and although it is in poor repair, it could well be used.

Lots of Kohites around--God certainly knows who they are and can easily find one who is not defiled.

"So we have lots of problems here that must be solved before the Tribulation Period begins. 1. Ethnic Jews, and not merely religious Jews, qualify to inherit the Land of Promise, according to Scripture . . . . "

More nonsense. Where does it say that? Clearly Daniel 9:27 requires the sacrifical worship system to be in place but not for long and not in a Temple; and not in a land where identified Ethnic Jews are located. Although we see the claim for the ethnics who do inhabit the land who have a creditable claim that they are identifiable descendants of Abraham as providing a foundation for the religious worship system contemplated.

Further, nowhere does it say the tribulation does not start prior to resumption of the sacrifices (or the return of Isreal as a nation either for that matter). To the contrary, in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24), Jesus tells us what starts the tribulation period and we find nothing there about the the events of Daniel 9:27. What we do find (Matthew 24:5) is the first event of the tribulation period: The appearance of claiments to be Jesus Christ. We have already see that.

We need to be very very careful about engrafting these interpretative views onto God's Word. We need to study the events and facts as they develop and consider their implications in the context of God's Prophetic Program. The Pharisees in John 7:41-52 missed the main event in history because they had a view of the scriptural prophecieis that included a series of interpretative additions not found in the Word.

14 posted on 09/19/2003 7:43:23 PM PDT by David
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To: hope
bump for later read
16 posted on 09/19/2003 7:46:47 PM PDT by agrace
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To: hope
Which begs the question: If today's "Jews" are not the REAL Jews, then why do the Arabs hate them as "Jews," rather than as "Pseudo-Jew Imposters?"

Doh!
17 posted on 09/19/2003 8:02:15 PM PDT by BenR2 ((John 3:16: Still True Today.))
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To: hope
It doesn't matter. Next thread.
19 posted on 09/19/2003 8:14:10 PM PDT by Consort
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To: hope
What kind of an idle mind would even ask?
What difference does it make?

I start getting the odor of sandmaggot propaganda...

28 posted on 09/19/2003 9:59:29 PM PDT by Publius6961 (californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: hope
"As Allah is my witness, in my blood flows more of the Children of Israel and the ancient Hebrews than in the blood of Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu."

Blasphemy?

30 posted on 09/19/2003 10:40:59 PM PDT by etcetera
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To: hope
I'm just scratching my head wondering how the Muslims correlate any of the geographic features mentioned in the Bible with Yemen. Perhaps they would like to show us where the Jordan River really is.
33 posted on 09/19/2003 11:07:55 PM PDT by Buggman (Jesus Saves--the rest of you take full damage.)
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To: hope
There is an ongoing, worldwide search for a qualifying red heifer.

There is an ongoing local search for the "treasure of the copper scrolls". I have had the fun of taking part in the search for it. The first scroll has been found, the second scroll is still missing. If the second scroll is found it will have the missing half of the treasure map showing where the first temple treasure was buried. It is suspected that the treasure contains un-defiled supplies of properly stored red-hefier ashes along with temple implements. If found it will be the key to the lock of rebuilding the temple. Gold and silver pale in comparison to that in the hands of the Rabbi's of Israel.

I like treasure hunting, and no, I ain't a saying no more, fuggeda-bout-it...

39 posted on 09/20/2003 2:04:18 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: hope
Does all this mean that I am commanded by God to demand that my government support Israel and call for the killing of all Arabs that do not leave the promised land?
41 posted on 09/20/2003 2:39:31 AM PDT by jackbob
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To: hope
Does all this mean that I am commanded by God to demand that my government support Israel and call for the killing of all Arabs that do not leave the promised land?
43 posted on 09/20/2003 2:42:36 AM PDT by jackbob
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To: hope
"As Allah is my witness, in my blood flows more of the Children of Israel and the ancient Hebrews than in the blood of Ariel Sharon and Benjamin Netanyahu."

Hmm, on the one hand, we have a scholar with the fabled, legendary honesty of the Arabs behind him and not a shred of supporting factual material, and on the other, the documented history of a nation of millions of people who have been scrupulous and prolific recordkeepers for thousands of years.

Gee, who to believe? This one's a real head-scratcher, isn't it?

45 posted on 09/20/2003 3:15:18 AM PDT by Imal (The deadliest weapon is patience.)
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