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MP3s Are Not the Devil
The Ornery American ^ | 9-7-2003 | Orson Scott Card

Posted on 09/22/2003 12:40:54 AM PDT by Prince Charles

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To: Prince Charles

Evweebody know, it's dee AH-I-A-A dats de devil...

21 posted on 09/22/2003 2:45:40 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
52 years is ridiculous...

So then under the old law, the hits of *1951* would just be coming up for the public domain.

It seems to me that unlike books, music and movies should have a much shorter copyright period.

Perhaps something like 5 years for the company and then 5 years for the original artists for the former and 10 and 10 for the latter.

Overall, while the industry does have a point about copyright law and piracy they are perhaps the worst example of an industry running amok.

Everything you've ever heard some leftie whine about capitalism is pretty much true of the movie and music industry - sexual abuse and harrasment, employee exploitation, monopolistic scheming, buying a whole (Democrat) political party, and so on.


22 posted on 09/22/2003 3:07:08 AM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: swilhelm73
Give me a break. 5 years? Bwhaha!

I have a right to own my creations and my family or estate should have the right to reap the fruits of my labor.

If I wish to sign my publishing away that's my choice, not yours and not the gubmints.

Current copyright law is fair and just.

23 posted on 09/22/2003 4:11:44 AM PDT by zarf (..where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment?)
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To: Prince Charles
Card is a science fiction writer.

Card is my all time favorite science fiction writer.

24 posted on 09/22/2003 4:27:31 AM PDT by Lil'freeper
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To: zarf
not yours and not the gubmints.

The government is the only entity capable of writing and enforcing copywrite protections. Therefore, it is very much the "gubmints" bizness.

If you want copywrite enforcement, the gubmit is the only place to go.

25 posted on 09/22/2003 4:46:28 AM PDT by Skooz (All Hail the Mighty Kansas City Chiefs)
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To: zarf
Ho hum, another opinion from one who wishes to make more money. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, but don't expect anybody else to share that opinion.

The Founding Fathers had very good reasons for limiting the ownership period.

By the way, its the "gubmint" that creates your copyrights in the first place. I wouldn't compain too much about them, if I were you.
26 posted on 09/22/2003 5:07:24 AM PDT by jimtorr
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To: Prince Charles
Question: Don't copy right laws apply to libraries too? I see people copying from books all the time, using library copiers.
27 posted on 09/22/2003 5:20:26 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (I always wanted to be somebody, but I should have been more specific.)
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To: zarf
>>I get a kick out of how many people believe that they are entitled to "free" use of anothers property

Intellectual property is a legal construct. There is the legal construct that was originally in the Constitution, and there is today's legal construct that was largely put in place by legislation bought and paid for by large publishing/media houses.

I see nothing wrong with lobbying and encouraging a return to something somewhat closer to what was originally in the Constitution. To argue that someone doing so, is for "free" use of IP, is either ignorant or disingenuous.

That said, I agree with the limit you propose, life of the author plus a few years, say no more than 20. Perpetual copyright, primarily for the benefit of large media houses, is absurd, and is pretty much where we are at today.
28 posted on 09/22/2003 5:23:11 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: Graybeard58
Read up on the concept of "Fair Use". That is what allows limited copying.
29 posted on 09/22/2003 5:23:52 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: Prince Charles
Card is a science fiction writer.

It shows. Card should stick to what he does best.

30 posted on 09/22/2003 5:29:05 AM PDT by strela (I wonder if Tom McClintock will have to "make a reservation" to pay back all that money?)
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To: weegee
Wow. Of the top 10, we have 8. Also, those cds/albums are old, and therefore we have some of those in at least 2 formats.

Here's an idea. How about being able to 'return' your unwanted cds to the store if you don't want them anymore and get back the original price you paid for them? Anything else you buy you can return if it's in perfect condition, right? This way, most consumers would only possess those cds that they listen to.
31 posted on 09/22/2003 5:36:07 AM PDT by Snowy (My golden retriever can lick your honor student)
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To: Rain-maker; zarf
Too bad nothing is essentially orginal, just a recomposition of the same words and melodies since the dawn of man. Maybe they should copyright thoughts and labotimize you for thinking the same...rofl

Using your same logic, we should just help ourselves to food in stores, since it's just a recomposition of dirt and organic stuff that's been around since the dawn of man.

I just am puzzled why so many people don't see the "value" of intellectual property....

That said, I don't care if "big music" dies. I can make in my little bedroom studio music that's just as "good" as anything you can buy at the store for $17. The prices are far far far too inflated, and "music superstars" should be a fading breed....

32 posted on 09/22/2003 5:56:04 AM PDT by Theo
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To: strela
He wrote a great piece here. Solid and powerful. Reading it makes me more glad to have read one of his sci fi books.
33 posted on 09/22/2003 6:46:28 AM PDT by zook
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To: zook
I have no problem with Mr. Card's fiction - his "Ender" series of books is fantastic and imaginative. I just wonder how he (and his pocketbook) would feel if people scanned each of his books and put them on the Internet for anyone to download.
34 posted on 09/22/2003 7:26:41 AM PDT by strela (I wonder if Tom McClintock will have to "make a reservation" to pay back all that money?)
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To: strela
He says in the article that he supports reasonable copyright laws. But he also points out the flaws and hypocrisy in the arguments of the music industry.
35 posted on 09/22/2003 7:44:52 AM PDT by zook
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To: weegee
I plan to work on getting a good sound sample from my vinyl

Aside from getting the best possible vinyl playback equipment and the best possible sound card to handle the A/D conversion, I recommend getting a copy of SoundForge and the noise reduction plugin. Academic versions are available for non-commercial use.

The noise reduction is very sophisticated. It has a click and pop remover that is infinitely configurable to prevent audible side-effects. If you don't trust the automatic mode you can mark each and every click and treat it individually.

There is also a very sophisticted noise reduction process that can sample a "silent" grove, build a noise profile, and remove the noise from the entire recording without introducing "breathing" effects. If a touch of crackle makes you feel better, you can apply these these processes lightly, getting rid of only the most annoying pops.

36 posted on 09/22/2003 8:24:35 AM PDT by js1138
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To: zarf
I have a right to own my creations and my family or estate should have the right to reap the fruits of my labor.

The point of copyright protection is to allow you to "reap the fruits of [your] labor". Certainly. But please tell me what other type of labor can I perform where I can sell the fruits of my labor, over and over again without performing additional labor, in perpetuity? And imagine, if you would, the impact of perpetual copyrights on the pool of music, literature, and written works that many current authors draw on.

If I wish to sign my publishing away that's my choice, not yours and not the gubmints.

And 12,000 years from now, do you think your heirs should still control who can copy what you wrote?

Current copyright law is fair and just.

On what grounds? That you deserve to get paid for the rest of your life for effort that you expending once? Do work once and get paid forever.

37 posted on 09/22/2003 9:38:35 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: Theo
Using your same logic, we should just help ourselves to food in stores, since it's just a recomposition of dirt and organic stuff that's been around since the dawn of man.

As many anti-IP people will tell you, if you take the food from a store, you are depriving the owner of that food and they cannot sell it to anyone else. That form of stealing is significantly different than the form of stealing that goes on when you copy a book, movie, or song. Most people intuitively realize this -- even those who believe in protecting works of authorshiop.

I just am puzzled why so many people don't see the "value" of intellectual property....

I most certainly do. I think it is very important that artists get compensated for their labors. Even handsomely so. But I don't think that compensation should last forever. It doesn't for any other labor.

Let's look at your food store example. When you buy an apple, you are compensating the farmer (and all of those along the distribution chain) for their labor and resources. But once that farmer grows that apple, if he wants to make more money next year, he needs to maintain his trees and grow more apples. And more apples the next year. And so on. Now let's compare that with a songwriter.

The songwriter spends time writing a song. And they should certainly get compensated for that effort. But once they've written that song, they can make copies of it with trivial effort. So with perpetual (or near perpetual) copyrights, an author performs labor once and then simply collects money for that labor forever. What would it mean to farming if farmers could hit it big on one harvest and then retire? Or automakers could hit it big on one car and then retire?

38 posted on 09/22/2003 9:51:27 AM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: zarf
Current copyright law is fair and just.

Current copyright law is a bastardization of what people in America had in the 1800s. Sheet music was sold but there was no "performance fee". When records came out, there was no "royalty payment" for each recording. When radio came along, there was no payment for each spin of the record.

In parts of Europe, it is possible to keep a copyright alive forever. The Doors got bit by this for a bit of classical Spanish guitar referenced by Robby Krieger in Spanish Caravan. They only have to pay a few pennies per performance, but it is still owed.

Copyright extensions are now exceeding 100 years. Popular recordings reside in the hands of a few big corporations. The reason we are hearing so much about this now is finally ALL works from the dawn of talking pictures (movies) and 1930s music would be lapsing into the public domain. It's taken them awhile to amass the ownership of these works and they don't want them to go PD now.

The reference to "Work For Hire" must have escaped you completely. The artists who created and starred in these works don't see crap for their creativity. Some go to sue the companies and those cases drag on for a decade or more.

There are some works that will cease to exist if we wait another 28 years to allow people to privately restore and release the materials.

The understanding is that these works would become a part of the fabric of our nation and a part of our culture. One person would build off the works of another. Mark Twain is public domain as is Edgar Allen Poe and there have been many adaptations of their works as well as much circulation of their writings.

Tarzan books are public domain but the ERB decendents have claimed to have trademarked the literary character (a bastardization of that notion). Any attempts to adapt Tarzan will be met with lawsuits. This was the first popular character to lapse into the public domain and this is where the fight began.

39 posted on 09/22/2003 12:03:28 PM PDT by weegee
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To: swilhelm73
Yeah, Copyright law is rediculous these days. At the beginning of the last century, it was 14 years, with a one-time renewal possible for another 14. That means it maxed at 28 years. Not too shabby really when you think about it. It actually made a lot of sense regarding people's lifespan and whatnot. Today, however, it is essentially perpetual. There are many reasons for this, but I think one of the major ones is that the major holders of copyright changed dramatically over the course of the 20th century from that of individuals to corporations.

Corporations are immortal, so they can see definite benefits of maintaining the government created exclusive monopolies granted by copy right. I doubt you've have seen quite the lobbying push for the current life + 70 years than was the case.

Consider this: in 1967, the Disney company produced an animated cartoon of the Jungle Book. Guess when the copyright for that particular work expired? 1966. If the copyright law in 1920 had been the same then as it is today, the Disney corporation would have had to wait until 2006 until they could legally rip Mr. Rudyard Kipling and his decendants off, and make millions of dollars from a concept they'd not created. So far, they've made at least 2 cartoons and one live-action movie that I know of based on the Jungle Book. All of this is perfectly legal and proper by the way because that is exactly the way copyright was supposed to work. The author gets it for a while, then we get it forever. I can, if I so desire, print up and bind a copy of any of Mr. Kiplings books, poems, or shorts and sell them without paying him or his heirs a dime.

However, since the 50's or so, copyright terms have been steadily lengthening. Coincidentally, it would seem that just before Disney's Steamboat Willie would enter the public domain, they are able to buy off enough congresscritters to extend it for another 20 years. Hmmmm.... It's o.k. for THEM to use other people's stuff but not for anyone else to use theirs? Hmmmm...

This year the Supreme Court upheld the newly expanded copyright terms. For some reason, they seem to believe that the "limited times" as written in the constitution can be expressed mathimatically as Infinity-1.

The point to all this is this: I, personally, have zero respect for any copyright beyond 28 years. So, I do my bit to make sure that anyone who wants a copy of The Beatles' White Album, Glen Miller's Pennsylvania 6 5000, Pink Floyd's The Dark Side of the Moon or anything else more than 28 years old is available to anyone who wants it.

Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to play.

40 posted on 09/22/2003 12:05:06 PM PDT by zeugma (Hate pop-up ads? Here's the fix: http://www.mozilla.org/ Now Version 1.4!)
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