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Johnson had JFK Killed: new book
John Gibson Show ^ | 9/22/03 | Ed in NJ

Posted on 09/22/2003 2:32:23 PM PDT by Ed_in_NJ

Sorry to be so short on facts, but a new book ("Blood Money") charges LBJ with ordering the JFK hit.

The author is the former business partner of the man he accuses of setting it up (??? Clark), and claims there is no doubt in his mind as to the truth of the allegation.

Apparently LBJ was about to be indicted on another murder charge, and saw his ascendency to POTUS as his way out.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: assassination; bloodmoney; bookreview; johnson; kennedy
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To: O Neill


Correct terminology must be used.
'Odd pull' is not correct.
The scope was mounted the only way it could be.
You must use a zero based time line. 'Messed up' articles must not be believed.
You have your orders
101 posted on 09/22/2003 7:39:14 PM PDT by tpaine ( I'm trying to be Mr Nice Guy, but politics keep getting in me way. ArnieRino for Governator)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Hmm, maybe we could charge his family

How 'bout we all just pour a bottle of Pearl beer on his grave (after it's been run through our kidneys, of course)?

102 posted on 09/22/2003 7:48:01 PM PDT by leadpenny
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Thanks for the additional info. I'm too young to have been following the news at that time and my natural aversion for JFK and LBJ has kept me from reading in depth about either though I have been meaning to read Caro's volumes on Johnson. Do you know if he covers the Wallace murder? BTW I know exactly how you feel about Foster.
103 posted on 09/22/2003 8:14:44 PM PDT by u-89
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To: u-89
Sounds like the book is worth a read.
104 posted on 09/22/2003 9:23:34 PM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
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To: strela
Seems that she had a lot of company. Even tho I was 'around' back then, guess I didn't realize just how many people felt that strongly/negatively about him.
105 posted on 09/22/2003 9:38:56 PM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
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To: Ed_in_NJ
Even tho I was 'around' back then, guess I didn't realize just how many people felt that strongly/negatively about him.

Its funny - I always thought it was just her too. But, "Landslide Lyndon" has been trashed by too many people I respect to feel any different.

106 posted on 09/22/2003 10:48:09 PM PDT by strela (I wonder if Tom McClintock will have to "make a reservation" to pay back all that money?)
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To: LS
"For those of you who don't know, Laz just gave us the unedited DVD version of "JFK," with the additional 20 minutes of "Back . . . and to the left" restored."

Where?

--Boris

107 posted on 09/23/2003 12:22:57 AM PDT by boris (The deadliest Weapon of Mass Destruction in History is a Leftist With a Word Processor)
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To: Ed_in_NJ
BTW, it has always been my view that LBJ had it done; contracted out to the Mafia.

The Men Who Killed Kennedy pretty much clinched it for me. Motive, opportunity, means: all point to LBJ.

--Boris
P.S. And yes, there was another shooter on the grassy knoll; several lines of evidence show this conclusively. The Mystery Changing Coffin and the vanishing autopsy reports...too much, man.

--Boris

108 posted on 09/23/2003 12:25:38 AM PDT by boris (The deadliest Weapon of Mass Destruction in History is a Leftist With a Word Processor)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael; BonnieJ; boris
Which of the JFK assassination theory books would you say made the BEST case for whichever theory it was promoting?
109 posted on 09/23/2003 4:20:57 AM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
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To: boris
About ten years ago an anchor man had received a 16mm color film of the motorcade with a fuzzy view of the famous window where Oswald supposedly fired.

Yes, it was fuzzy, but it appeared there were two men in white shirts moving around up there as the motorcade turned in front of the building.

The anchor man was giddy with this legacy and was going to rush the film to Washington D.C. the next morning--and soon as he got the results we would get an immediate update on that incredible finding. He's still around, but have heard nothing more about that film.

Also, I was ten at the time and I remember looking at LOOK or Life magazine, and remember a photo taken from the Schoolbook Depository on the third or fourth floor just after the assassination, and two young black men were yelling to the photographer pointing to the grassy knoll. Also, the grassy knoll is where most of the reporters and police headed after the shots were fired.

110 posted on 09/23/2003 5:46:50 AM PDT by Ff--150 (we have been fed with milk, not meat)
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To: O Neill
Oh the old "telescopic sight was not aligned" which is always trotted out without asking "by how much?"

At the the range Oswald was shooting at the bullet would have hit just 3-4" to the right and above the aim point.

Easily compensated for if Oswald knew about it.

In fact because of the direction the Kennedy car was moving, the easiest way of compensating would be to allow *no* compensation, just aim where you wanted the bullet to hit without leading the target.

And if Oswald didn't know about it and attempted to lead while aiming at the base of Kennedy's skull, an accurate bullet would strike in exactly the position of the final head shot.

111 posted on 09/23/2003 6:13:15 AM PDT by Oztrich Boy ("Ain't I a stinker?")
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To: boris
It's a joke from Dennis Miller.
112 posted on 09/23/2003 6:23:14 AM PDT by LS
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To: Ed_in_NJ
I don't recall ever reading any of the books. I lived the events of the era. I saw the Kennedy-LBJ liberals take advantage of the assassination. Gun laws. Gun laws and more gun laws. The left broadcast the message everyday for months: conservative criticism of JFK caused Oswald to assassinate the president -- stop the conservatives from having a voice (enter the "Fairness Doctrine" and the beginning of the end of conservative talk radio of the day).

I just know what I think of LBJ and what I know he is capable of. I repeat. There are not enough pejorative words in the dictionary to describe that pure evil SOB. I've long believed his body should be dug up and burned. We was Rasputin's evil twin.

I'll just add: Americans would be wise to carefully watch any descendants of LBJ no matter how distant.

I ain't referring only to how he betrayed the troops.

113 posted on 09/23/2003 6:29:45 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Ff--150
Barr McClellan's book has fingerprint proof that LBJ hit man Malcolm E. "Mac" Wallace was in that room. Certainly one of the boxes in the room had the only print that could not be identified at the time.

On a hunch in the late 1990s the mystery print was compared to Wallace and I believe the book reveals that it was an unquestionable match. Wallace died in a car wreck 30 years ago. He is known to have been convicted of one murder in the early 1950s and it's pretty well established that he murdered at least fifteen or so more. Mostly on orders from LBJ and other associates it's alleged.

114 posted on 09/23/2003 6:44:30 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael
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To: Ed_in_NJ
Which of the JFK assassination theory books would you say made the BEST case for whichever theory it was promoting?

"Case Closed", by the extremely thorough investigative reporter Gerald Posner. Besides gathering astounding amounts of information from available sources, Posner did a lot of original investigation into the issue, talked to officials familiar with the contents of the (then) unreleased files, and even located and interviewed the KGB official who had been responsible for Oswald during his defection to the USSR. "Case Closed" is also the single most comprehensive compilation of evidence about the assissation available in book form. Whenever someone has an obscure question about the assassination or Oswald, I can find the answer in "Case Closed" 99 times out of 100.

For the most part Posner simply presents the mountain of evidence and lets the reader draw the obvious conclusions, but at the end he states his own view based on the evidence, and after reading the book it seems hard to disagree: Oswald shot JFK, from the sixth floor of the Schoolbook Depository, without a Vast Government Conspiracy(tm) behind him.

115 posted on 09/23/2003 7:09:19 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: F.J. Mitchell
He was one hellova shootist though and fast too. In his talented hands a single shot rifle became an automatic weapon.

Hardly.

The first shot occurs at near frame 160 of the Zapruder film, the second shot at frame 223 or 224, and the final shot at frame 313.

That means that after the first shot, there was a 3.5 second pause before the second shot. And the gap between the the second and third shots was 4.9 seconds, making a total time of 8.4 seconds. This is hardly a rate of fire of an "automatic weapon", and is easily achievable with a bolt-action rifle like Oswald's.

In fact, despite the claims of countless conspiracy theorists that "no one" has been able to duplicate the shooting that would have been required, in fact numerous recreations have had no problem whatsoever doing so. For example, CBS reconstructed the shooting for a 1975 documentary. Eleven volunteers took three shots each at a moving target using a Carcano rifle, without even doing any prior practice on that model of rifle. Their times ranges from 4.1 seconds (total) to slightly more than 6 seconds, with the average being 5.6 seconds and 2 hits out of 3. Furthermore, the House Select Committee in 1977 did a reconstruction and found that their test shooter could hit all targets with 1.66 seconds between shots.

116 posted on 09/23/2003 7:29:16 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: demlosers; Snardius; elbucko; Steve Eisenberg
How long will it be before the government makes the documents related to the Kennedy assassination unclassified?

Is "eleven years ago" soon enough for you? The President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992 (Public Law 102-526) ordered the review and release of pretty much all such records.

For example, if you want to see the 113 records released by the NSA under this act, see NSA JFK documents.

Summaries of the material can be found at the National Archives JFK Assassination Records webpage. The released material consists of more than 4.5 million pages of assassination-related records, photographs, motion pictures, sound recordings and artifacts.

The movie "JFK" by Oliver Stone was a giant load of conspiracy-theory propaganda, but it did serve on useful purpose: The public interest in the JFK assassination it raised, and the stink it made about the remaining unreleased records, lit a fire under Congress and they moved to release the records in 1992.

If you're wondering why you haven't heard of this, it's because the conspiracy theorists seldom talk about it, since the truckload of newly released material *still* fails to support their conspiracy fantasies.

As one satirical "newspaper" wrote in their classic "headline" for November 22, 1963, ridiculing the proliferation of wildly varying conspiracy theories, "KENNEDY SLAIN BY CIA, MAFIA, CASTRO, LBJ, TEAMSTERS, FREEMASONS: President Shot 129 Times From 43 Different Angles".

So what Amazing Revelations were revealed in these documents that the Grand Government Conspiracy had been "hiding" all these years? Nothing, really, which was a great disappointment for those who believed that the Real Story was somehow being concealed in them.

117 posted on 09/23/2003 7:31:05 AM PDT by Ichneumon
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Thanks for reminding me of Wallace and the unknown palm print, was it? That film I mentioned showed two men in that infamous window. IMO, neither seemed to be shooting.

I also remember back then a man in a photo standing on the train trestle with a rifle by his side, as the president sped below him to Parkland. Looked odd to a ten-year-old.

118 posted on 09/23/2003 7:31:56 AM PDT by Ff--150 (we have been fed with milk, not meat)
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To: Ichneumon
So what Amazing Revelations were revealed in these documents that the Grand Government Conspiracy had been "hiding" all these years? Nothing, really, which was a great disappointment for those who believed that the Real Story was somehow being concealed in them.

No reasonable person, after reviewing the evidence presented by those who attempt to explain what happened, can come to the conclusions they did. Forensics don't lie.

119 posted on 09/23/2003 8:08:08 AM PDT by Snardius
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To: Steve Eisenberg
Steve, Lee didn't shoot anyone that day. I THINK (not sure but I'm checking) that parafin tests were performed on him the day he was arrested. If I'm not mistaken these tests indicated he hadn't even fired a weapon.

Furthermore in my Professional Opinion, there is NO way that Lee could have done the shooting. He was not capable of it. His scores on a KD course in the Marine Corps were marginal at best. That was on a course where the Distances are Known, he is in what we call a Tight Sling position shooting on a flat trajectory at a stationary target.

But the Powers that be (not sure who) wants us to believe that this marginal shooter took a notoriously inaccurate bolt action rifle and performed an assassination with world class precision in under 6.8 seconds at a moving target from 6 floors above his victim.

I was a Primary Marksmanship Instructor in the Marines. I taught these kids how to shoot. I was damn good at my job (Still am, I teach kids how to shoot where I live). I was also a Sniper in the Marines. This kind of shooting takes a level of skill that Lee Oswald did not possess.

I think Lee was a part of it. But he was not the shooter.
120 posted on 09/23/2003 9:38:28 AM PDT by Leatherneck_MT (If you continue to do what you've always done, you will continue to get what you've a‚i]±s got.)
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