British Memorial Is Vandalized by Muslims (because it honored defenders of Armenians)

nytimes.com ^ | September 24, 2003 | AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

[TBP]

In some Muslim countries, it is true, it is against the law to convert from Islam. In many parts of India (and they are looking at it natinally), it is illegal to convert to any religion but Hinduism.

Yet India is considered a democracy and a country with which many here want to ally (despite a long record of anti-Americanism) and Islam is universally condemned for what SOME of them do. It's the logical fallacy of the false universal.

[browardchad]

a few crazies?

Frankly, that statement borders on the delusional. Can you explain how these “few crazies” pop up on a daily basis, in almost every nation on the planet, to fight whomever they consider “the unbelievers?”

If you intend to rationally defend Islam, you will first have to face the facts: Islamic fundamentalists may in fact be a minority of the Muslim population, but they are capable, at any given moment in any given situation, of inciting the “moderate” population to murder and mayhem in defense of real or imagined wrongs. That is the true danger of Islam.

[Cronos]

just one change -- M would've murdered you for his own idea of a sin. Don't forget that this was a guy who consummated his marriage to a six year old, this was a guy who said killing was God's word. As the Centurion put it and repeating it once more:

Actual Quotes from the Koran: (Yusufali's translation of the Qur'an, the most widely trusted) "Kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191) "Ye are the best of peoples evolved for mankind." (Koran 3:110) "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and genitals cut off, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror." (Koran, 5:33-34) "Not to make friendship with Jews and Christians" (Koran 5:51) "Remember Allah inspired the angels: I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: you smite them above their necks and smite all their fingertips off of them." (Koran, 8:12) "In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost." (Koran, 8:37) "If there are twenty amongst you, you will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, you will vanquish a thousand of them [infidels]" (Koran 8:65). Allah and his messenger announce that it is acceptable to go back on our promises (treaties) and obligations with Pagans and make war on them whenever we find ourselves strong enough to do so (Koran 9:3) "Fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5) Our God tells us to "fight the unbelievers" and "He will punish them by our hands, cover them with shame and help us (to victory) over them" (Koran 9:14). "Until they pay the Jizya [a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" (Koran 9:29) "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39). "O Prophet! Make war against the unbelievers [all non-Muslims] and the hypocrites and be merciless against them. Their home is hell, an evil refuge indeed." (Koran, 9:73) "Murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123) "When you meet the unbelievers in jihad [holy war], chop off their heads. And when you have brought them low, bind your prisoners rigorously. Then set them free or take ransom from them until the war is ended." (Koran, 47:40) "When we decide to destroy a population, we send a definite order to them who have the good things in life and yet sin. So that Allah's word is proven true against them, then we destroy them utterly." (Koran, 17:16-17) "How many were the populations we utterly destroyed because of their sins, setting up in their place other peoples." (Koran, 21:11) "strike off the heads of the disbelievers" (Koran 47:4) "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37) "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " (Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177) The Prophet killed the men of the Jewish tribe Bani Quraiza (some 600 to 800 of them) and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims All the other Jews of Medina were exiled. (Bukhari 5:59:362) The Prophet had the date-palms of the Jewish tribe of Bani-Al- Nadir burnt and cut down. "It was with Allah's permission" (Koran 59:5) The Prophet said to Sa'd, :The Bani Quraiza have agreed to accept your verdict" Sa'd said, "Kill all their men and take their women and children as slaves" The Prophet replied, "You have judged according to God's Judgment" (Bukhari 5:59:447) "The Christians say: The Christ is the son of Allah; "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29) These are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them." (Sura 9:30) "Unbelievers are those who say: 'God is one of three.' There is but one God. If they do not desist from so saying, those of them that disbelieve shall be sternly punished." (Surah 5:73)

[Cronos]

Hey, they were misunderstood. These are just coincidences that they were slammies. Don't condemn all, just because 90% are terroristas and the rest support them..

[Cronos]

note to self, use the </sarcasm tag more often!!

[Cronos]

Paul Hill was ONE, count 'em ONE, whereas the slammies just go on kllin ever since M came up with his cult

[TBP]

Islamic fundamentalists may in fact be a minority of the Muslim population, but they are capable, at any given moment in any given situation, of inciting the “moderate” population to murder and mayhem in defense of real or imagined wrongs.

Not really. They murder and threaten the moderate Islamics to intimidate them into silence. That is one of the things that makes Islamists dangerous. But one of the ways to combat this is to create a safe environment for Muslim moderates. This is what the President is trying to do with his "religion of peace" remarks. Unfortunately, the crazies (who really aren't that many) seem to have almost all the guns. That is why so many people are afraid of the idea of a Muslim democracy. It will show how to be Muslim without being Islamist.

[Cronos]

A few crazies???? What abotu the polls run by slamic papaers that show that 60 to 70% of the slamic nations populations support suicide bombers atacking US citizens???

[Cronos]

No, it's not a coincidence, it's the sign which any logical person would read. The prob is that the libs and slammi sympathisers aren't logical.

[Cronos]

Note the point that you said: 'some', but those numbers are a minuscule percent compared to the percentage of slammies that:
a. Commit these acts
b. Support these acts and celebrate them.

[Cronos]

In some?? More like most slamic countries make it illegal to convert.. In Saud, Pak, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, etc. etc. etc. NAME ONE christian country that bans conversions. Name ONE

[Trailerpark Badass]

then I think you're so buried in your small-minded hatred that there is no point in trying to have a discussion with you.

No, you sanctimonious ass, you don't like the fact that he has arrived at a different conclusion than you have, and that he won't submit to your choking arrogance. As another poster said, shove it!

[browardchad]

one of the ways to combat this is to create a safe environment for Muslim moderates. This is what the President is trying to do with his "religion of peace" remarks

Pipes' point on the "Voices of Islam" thread is that unless and until the federal bureaucracy replaces thinly-veiled militant organizations such as CAIR, AMC, ISNA and others now considered legitimate spokespersons for American Muslims, the "moderates" will continue to be persecuted, threatened and in many cases, recruited to fundamentalism through the mosques and learning institutions funded by these groups.

The kumbayah attitude is not how this will be accomplished -- it's going to take some hard un-PC decisions and reality-checks by many in government; most notably the State Department and the Chiefs of Staff. Saying Islam is a "religion of peace" doesn't make it so. At best, it is wishful thinking at this point in history.

[Cronos]

Ok, let me raise this quesiton again, this time to all

most slamic countries make it illegal to convert.. In Saud, Pak, Syria, Iran, Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, Yemen, Oman, Qatar, Kuwait, etc. etc. etc. NAME ONE christian country that bans conversions. Name ONE

[TBP]

Alrady answered your question. No, I am not.

[Cronos]

Sorry, but that's a really stupid thing to say: "The Vatican doesn't allow missionaries". The Vatican is .33 sq km in size, it's got a population of 3000 who are clergy. you say there are plenty of majority-Muslim countries where other faiths are accepted and welcomed I say, Name one Any mid eastern state? Naah, they all persecute/execute/enslave the non-slamic populations. Pak? It's worse. Indonesia? Ever heard of the Xtian massacres going on in the Malaccas? Ever heard of East Timor? Malaysia is 55% slamic but it still puts a lot of restrictions on the non-cult members.

[Cronos]

I repeat Name ONE