Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Missing Statistic: U.S. Jobs That Went Overseas
The New York Times ^ | October 5, 2003 | LOUIS UCHITELLE

Posted on 10/04/2003 1:47:09 PM PDT by sarcasm

The job market finally showed some life in September, but not enough to sidetrack a growing debate over why employment has failed to rebound nearly two years after the last recession ended. The debate intrudes increasingly on election politics, but in all the heated back and forth, an essential statistic is missing: the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.

The Labor Department, in its numerous surveys of employers and employees, has never tried to calculate this trade-off. But the "offshoring" of work has become so noticeable lately that experts in the private sector are now trying to quantify it.

By these initial estimates, at least 15 percent of the 2.81 million jobs lost in America since the decline began have reappeared overseas. Productivity improvements at home — sustaining output with fewer workers — account for the great bulk of the job loss. But the estimates being made suggest that the work sent overseas has been enough to raise the unemployment rate by four-tenths of a percentage point or more, to the present 6.1 percent.

That leakage fuels the political debate. The Bush administration is pushing the Chinese to allow their currency to rise in value, thus increasing the dollar value of wages in that country, a deterrent to locating work abroad. The Democrats agree, but some also call for trade restrictions, and they attack Republicans for cutting from the budget funds to retrain and support laid-off workers in the United States.

While most of the lost jobs are in manufacturing or in telephone call centers, lately the work sent abroad has climbed way up the skills ladder to include workers like aeronautical engineers, software designers and stock analysts as China, Russia and India, with big stocks of educated workers, merge rapidly into the global labor market.

"All of a sudden you have a huge influx of skilled people; that is a very disruptive process," said Craig R. Barrett, chief executive of Intel, the computer chip manufacturer.

Intel itself has maintained a fairly steady 60 percent of its employees in the United States. But in the past year or so, it has added 1,000 software engineers in China and India, doing work that in the past might have been done by people hired in the United States. "To be competitive, we have to move up the skill chain overseas," Mr. Barrett said.

The trade-off in jobs is not one for one. The work done here by one person often requires two or three less-efficient workers overseas. Even so, given the very low wages, the total saving for an American company can be as much 50 percent for each job shifted, even allowing for the extra cost of transportation, communication and other expenses that would not be needed if the work was done in the United States. That is the message of the nation's management consultants, who are encouraging their corporate clients to take advantage of the multiplying opportunities overseas.

" `Encourage' is a difficult way to put it," said Harold Sirkin, a senior vice president at the Boston Consulting Group. "What we are basically saying is that if your competitors are doing this, you will be at a disadvantage if you don't do it too."

The estimates of job loss from offshoring are all over the lot. They are back-of-the-envelope calculations at best, inferred from trade data and assumptions about the number of American workers needed to produce goods and services now coming from abroad, or no longer exported to a growing consumer market in, say, China.

Among economists and researchers, the high-end estimate comes from Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com, who calculates that 995,000 jobs have been lost overseas since the last recession began in March 2001. That is 35 percent of the total decline in employment since then. While most of the loss is in manufacturing, about 15 percent is among college-trained professionals.

Boeing, for example, employs engineers at a design center in Moscow, while having shrunk its engineering staff in Seattle. Morgan Stanley, the investment firm, is adding jobs in Bombay, but not in New York — employing Indian engineers as well as analysts who collect corporate data and scrutinize balance sheets for stock market specialists in New York. Lehman Brothers, Citigroup and J. P. Morgan, the investment arm of J. P. Morgan Chase, are also setting up shop in India. Other American companies contract with Indian firms to do their work.

"When we have a software glitch at our headquarters in New York," said Stephen S. Roach, chief economist at Morgan Stanley, "we send an e-mail to our engineers in India and they fix it and they e-mail it back and it is wired right into the mainframe in New York."

Near the low end of the job-loss estimates sit John McCarthy, research analyst at Forrester Research Inc., and Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insights. For them the loss is 500,000 to 600,000 jobs over the past 30 months, again mostly in manufacturing — with Mr. McCarthy suggesting that the 600,000 might turn out to be 800,000. His research focuses more on the future: Starting in January 2000 and running through 2015, globalization of American production will have eliminated 3.3 million jobs at home, he estimates.

Some are trying niche estimates. Roshi Sood, a government analyst at the Gartner Group, for example, estimates roughly that state government cutbacks have pushed overseas the work of 3,400 people once employed in the United States, either on public payrolls or on the payrolls of companies that contract with state government.

In Indiana, for example, the Department of Workforce Development recently chose an Indian company, TCS America, to maintain and update its computer programs, using high-speed telecommunications to carry out the contract. The TCS bid was $8 million below those submitted by two American competitors, Mr. Sood said.

Now political groups are offering estimates. The Progressive Policy Institute, which is affiliated with the Democratic Party, will soon publish its calculation of manufacturing jobs shifted overseas since George W. Bush took office just before the recession began, said Rob Atkinson, a vice president. Not surprisingly, the estimate — imputed from trade data — is on the high side: 800,000 jobs lost to overseas production.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: freetrade; manufacturing; offshoring
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-37 next last

1 posted on 10/04/2003 1:47:09 PM PDT by sarcasm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: harpseal
ping
2 posted on 10/04/2003 1:47:46 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
The debate intrudes increasingly on election politics, but in all the heated back and forth, an essential statistic is missing: the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.

Great point, but don't look for it to be brought up often.

3 posted on 10/04/2003 1:48:46 PM PDT by Cathryn Crawford ( No. ¡Deje un SOBORNO para el camarero!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
Better put on you asbestos shorts...I was accused of being in league with bin Laden for criticizing Fed policy a couple of days ago.
4 posted on 10/04/2003 1:49:40 PM PDT by Orangedog (Soccer-Moms are the biggest threat to your freedoms and the republic !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

Let's keep the Dem's on the run!
Click the Pic!

5 posted on 10/04/2003 1:50:34 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm

A Missing Statistic: The percentage of N Y Slimes articles that attempt to undermine the Bush administration

Direct hit, indirect volley, eating the foundations, making the talking space safe for defeatism and negativity during a Republican re-election season ... all these manner of bias are deeply troubling to the American people.

We NEED an investigation! The public has a Right To Know!! :-)

6 posted on 10/04/2003 1:55:06 PM PDT by WOSG (DONT PUT CALI ON CRUZ CONTROL & VOTE YES ON 54!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
Boeing, for example, employs engineers at a design center in Moscow, while having shrunk its engineering staff in Seattle.

Does anyone else see a real problem with this? The Cold War might be over, but Russia is largely run by the Russian mafia, most of whom are former KGB, who will have no problem selling industrial (and possibly military) secrets to the Chinese.

7 posted on 10/04/2003 1:56:04 PM PDT by Orangedog (Soccer-Moms are the biggest threat to your freedoms and the republic !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
Yep, there haven't been any jobs that have been moved overseas. It's all Democrat propaganda.
8 posted on 10/04/2003 1:57:30 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog
I thought that the Chinese were now our good friends.
9 posted on 10/04/2003 1:58:57 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Orangedog
There will be no need to 'sell' them to the Chinese, Boeing will bring them there themselves, in short order.
10 posted on 10/04/2003 1:59:06 PM PDT by dtel (Texas Longhorn cattle for sale. We don't rent pigs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
I thought that the Chinese were now our good friends.

Yeah, we're all good buddies. In fact, we're about to get a lot "closer" to the Chinese. They already control the Panama Canal and have thousands of "guests" stationed there. Funny how communism is making a come back in some areas of South America...I'm sure it's just a coincidence. Ever wonder why the GOP has been kissing Mexico's ass for the past few years? Try to imagine what would happen if our neighbor to the south decides to find another rich friend...say, one with lots of cash, production capacity and a growing presence in Central and South America...[/tin foil]

11 posted on 10/04/2003 2:09:05 PM PDT by Orangedog (Soccer-Moms are the biggest threat to your freedoms and the republic !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
In Indiana, for example, the Department of Workforce Development recently chose an Indian company, TCS America, to maintain and update its computer programs

This is absolutely outrageous. Indiana's state government agency, trying to develop worker skills for citizens of its own state, sends its computer work to the other side of the earth.

Hey, Indiana, did you ever consider hiring unemployed computer people in your own damn state?

12 posted on 10/04/2003 2:09:36 PM PDT by NoControllingLegalAuthority
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cathryn Crawford
the number of jobs that would exist in the United States today if so many had not escaped abroad.

That is a very stupid remark: these jobs have becomes too expensive to keep here; and, if they were not moved obversees, they would be eliminated altogether.

It's not unlike saying, "Imagine all the money you'd have if you just did not eat and had no need for shelter."

13 posted on 10/04/2003 2:10:07 PM PDT by TopQuark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NoControllingLegalAuthority
Unemployment in Indiana must be so low that they don't need such jobs.
14 posted on 10/04/2003 2:15:24 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
Sarcasm indeed - I merely point out that NYSlimes is reliable in pointing out how empty the half-full glass of life is. NYTimes is missing the fact that job picture is looking up, especially if you look at household survey numbers, which suggest new businesses are adding unreported jobs in the economy... Just as Arnold attack was *timed*, so was NYTimes, to squash the new trend that the economy is now finally starting the really ADD JOBS:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/business/cst-fin-econ04.html

http://www.careerjournalasia.com/salaryhiring/hotissues/20030922-hilsenrath.html
John Kitchen, an economist with the House Budget Committee, believes that is happening again. He recently studied the performance of payroll employment during the first 20 months of five previous economic recoveries, and found that in each case, the government had to revise up its initial payroll estimates after it went through a more comprehensive review of the job market. During the 20 months after the 1991 recession ended, for instance, the government reported that the economy created 303,000 jobs. After its final revisions, however, that number was bumped up to 663,000, because it missed young companies.

"It might be that we're not seeing as much of an ongoing decline as is suggested in the official numbers," Mr. Kitchen says. He estimates payrolls have been understated by 500,000 to 700,000 in the 20 months from November 2001 to June 2003.
15 posted on 10/04/2003 2:29:40 PM PDT by WOSG (DONT PUT CALI ON CRUZ CONTROL & VOTE YES ON 54!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: sarcasm
" ... the job market finally showed some life in September, but not enough to sidetrack a growing debate over why employment has failed to rebound nearly two years after the last recession ended."

Note the caveat that destroys the premise. This setnence is oxymoronic: Employment *has* started to rebound, finally. It is always a lagging indicator in business cycles; businesses wait for business to pick up and *then* start hiring - the GDP numbers are running 3-5% growth, so hiring will start to happen.

16 posted on 10/04/2003 2:33:17 PM PDT by WOSG (DONT PUT CALI ON CRUZ CONTROL & VOTE YES ON 54!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
I would like to see the stat too. I think if it were to become common knowledge, peole would be shocked.
17 posted on 10/04/2003 2:36:01 PM PDT by RiflemanSharpe (An American for a more socially and fiscally conservative America.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
Exactly what type of job are you suggesting have been created recently? It's certainly not jobs in manufacturing which have been declining since 2001. Manufacturing jobs, as I'm sure you know, pay significantly more than service jobs. Will this country ever regain the 2.5 million manufacturing jobs that have been lost?
18 posted on 10/04/2003 2:40:39 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: WOSG
It is always a lagging indicator in business cycles; businesses wait for business to pick up and *then* start hiring


19 posted on 10/04/2003 2:43:07 PM PDT by sarcasm (Tancredo 2004)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

Comment #20 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-37 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson