Virgin Mother of God

Companion to the Summa ^ | 1950 | Walter Farrell, O.P.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It would be great irony to send them an Irish AB to replace their ArchDruid.

I'm assuming that's orange Irish, eh, IT?

Carry on.

[redgolum]

So then, what do you think about the movement (not mainstream) to elevate Mary to godhood?

You are correct on Luther and Calvin's view of Mary. In many conservative Lutheran churchs, Mary did play a large role. This changed when the RCC position became that to be saved you have to go through Mary. The Lutheran churches did not want to be lumped into that and dropped most references to Mary out side of Christmas. Some of the older LCMS churches still celebrate the feast of Jesus's conception (not the real name, but I am on vacation so I beg a break :)) and even the assumption of Mary.

The difference is when it was declared, in 1870 I believe, that Mary had participated in the crucifixtion and was also sacraficed for our sins. That smelled a little to much like making Mary a goddess for many of the Lutheran theologians of the time, and as a result they began to remove references to Mary from the liturgy.

[irishtenor]

I am not sure what to call myself... Maybe Pope Sickle VII. Pope Goestheweasle II? Pope Tart XXI?

[irishtenor]

Jealousy will get you nowhere. The FIFTH Secret (the one YOU don't know about) says that one who sings like a masculine angel from and island far away (that would be me) will ascend the seat of ultimate obtuseness. So there.

[irishtenor]

Nothing GREEN, fer sure. (It's not easy being green ) :>)

[Catholicguy]

There is no such movement attenpting to elevate Mary to Godhood.

It has never been Christian Doctrine one must go through Mary for Salvation.

It has never been Christian Doctrine that Mary was sacrificed for our sins.

BTW, I was right about the Orthodox and you were wrong. I just thought I'd mention that as you are so enjoying your vacation you prolly forgot to mention you were wrong re your assertions.

I hope you have a fun vacation.

[drstevej]

***The FIFTH Secret (the one YOU don't know about) says that one who sings like a masculine angel from and island far away (that would be me) will ascend the seat of ultimate obtuseness. So there. ***

The FIFTH Secret points to an IRISH dude.

Could well be!

[irishtenor]

People are always asking me why I am wearing orange instead of green on St Patrick's day. I tell them I am Protestant. Most of them don't make the connection.

[ladyinred]

Thank you so much for the Marian Doctrines post.
I have another question if you don't mind, I read the part about the assumption of Mary several times. Since I have never heard of this before I am a bit confused. When do they say she was risen and taken up to Heaven? Or is it that she didn't die? I hope I am making sense. Very interesting, thanks.

[Krodg]

After the NT canon was determined it would be some 1000 years before a few people began to have printed Bibles available in their own language.

Any idea why that took so long?

[NeoCaveman]

Any idea why that took so long?

The printing press had yet to be invented. That would be why.

[Catholicguy]

THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: A BELIEF SINCE APOSTOLIC TIMES Father Clifford Stevens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Assumption is the oldest feast day of Our Lady, but we don't know how it first came to be celebrated. Its origin is lost in those days when Jerusalem was restored as a sacred city, at the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (c. 285-337). By then it had been a pagan city for two centuries, ever since Emperor Hadrian (76-138) had leveled it around the year 135 and rebuilt it as in honor of Jupiter. For 200 years, every memory of Jesus was obliterated from the city, and the sites made holy by His life, death and Resurrection became pagan temples. After the building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 336, the sacred sites began to be restored and memories of the life of Our Lord began to be celebrated by the people of Jerusalem. One of the memories about his mother centered around the "Tomb of Mary," close to Mount Zion, where the early Christian community had lived. On the hill itself was the "Place of Dormition," the spot of Mary's "falling asleep," where she had died. The "Tomb of Mary" was where she was buried. At this time, the "Memory of Mary" was being celebrated. Later it was to become our feast of the Assumption. For a time, the "Memory of Mary" was marked only in Palestine, but then it was extended by the emperor to all the churches of the East. In the seventh century, it began to be celebrated in Rome under the title of the "Falling Asleep" ("Dormitio") of the Mother of God. Soon the name was changed to the "Assumption of Mary," since there was more to the feast than her dying. It also proclaimed that she had been taken up, body and soul, into heaven. That belief was ancient, dating back to the apostles themselves. What was clear from the beginning was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated, and that an empty tomb stood on the edge of Jerusalem near the site of her death. That location also soon became a place of pilgrimage. (Today, the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition of Mary stands on the spot.) At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that "Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven." In the eighth century, St. John Damascene was known for giving sermons at the holy places in Jerusalem. At the Tomb of Mary, he expressed the belief of the Church on the meaning of the feast: "Although the body was duly buried, it did not remain in the state of death, neither was it dissolved by decay. . . . You were transferred to your heavenly home, O Lady, Queen and Mother of God in truth." All the feast days of Mary mark the great mysteries of her life and her part in the work of redemption. The central mystery of her life and person is her divine motherhood, celebrated both at Christmas and a week later (Jan. 1) on the feast of the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God. The Immaculate Conception (Dec. 8) marks the preparation for that motherhood, so that she had the fullness of grace from the first moment of her existence, completely untouched by sin. Her whole being throbbed with divine life from the very beginning, readying her for the exalted role of mother of the Savior. The Assumption completes God's work in her since it was not fitting that the flesh that had given life to God himself should ever undergo corruption. The Assumption is God's crowning of His work as Mary ends her earthly life and enters eternity. The feast turns our eyes in that direction, where we will follow when our earthly life is over. The feast days of the Church are not just the commemoration of historical events; they do not look only to the past. They look to the present and to the future and give us an insight into our own relationship with God. The Assumption looks to eternity and gives us hope that we, too, will follow Our Lady when our life is ended. The prayer for the feast reads: "All-powerful and ever-living God: You raised the sinless Virgin Mary, mother of your Son, body and soul, to the glory of heaven. May we see heaven as our final goal and come to share her glory." In 1950, in the Apostolic Constitution , Pope Pius XII proclaimed the Assumption of Mary a dogma of the Catholic Church in these words: "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever-virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heaven." With that, an ancient belief became Catholic doctrine and the Assumption was declared a truth revealed by God. Father Clifford Stevens writes from Tintern Monastery in Oakdale, Neb.

[Catholicguy]

THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY: A BELIEF SINCE APOSTOLIC TIMES Father Clifford Stevens --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Assumption is the oldest feast day of Our Lady, but we don't know how it first came to be celebrated. Its origin is lost in those days when Jerusalem was restored as a sacred city, at the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (c. 285-337). By then it had been a pagan city for two centuries, ever since Emperor Hadrian (76-138) had leveled it around the year 135 and rebuilt it as in honor of Jupiter.

For 200 years, every memory of Jesus was obliterated from the city, and the sites made holy by His life, death and Resurrection became pagan temples.

After the building of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 336, the sacred sites began to be restored and memories of the life of Our Lord began to be celebrated by the people of Jerusalem. One of the memories about his mother centered around the "Tomb of Mary," close to Mount Zion, where the early Christian community had lived.

On the hill itself was the "Place of Dormition," the spot of Mary's "falling asleep," where she had died. The "Tomb of Mary" was where she was buried.

At this time, the "Memory of Mary" was being celebrated. Later it was to become our feast of the Assumption.

For a time, the "Memory of Mary" was marked only in Palestine, but then it was extended by the emperor to all the churches of the East. In the seventh century, it began to be celebrated in Rome under the title of the "Falling Asleep" ("Dormitio") of the Mother of God.

Soon the name was changed to the "Assumption of Mary," since there was more to the feast than her dying. It also proclaimed that she had been taken up, body and soul, into heaven.

That belief was ancient, dating back to the apostles themselves. What was clear from the beginning was that there were no relics of Mary to be venerated, and that an empty tomb stood on the edge of Jerusalem near the site of her death. That location also soon became a place of pilgrimage. (Today, the Benedictine Abbey of the Dormition of Mary stands on the spot.)

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that "Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."

In the eighth century, St. John Damascene was known for giving sermons at the holy places in Jerusalem. At the Tomb of Mary, he expressed the belief of the Church on the meaning of the feast: "Although the body was duly buried, it did not remain in the state of death, neither was it dissolved by decay. . . . You were transferred to your heavenly home, O Lady, Queen and Mother of God in truth."

All the feast days of Mary mark the great mysteries of her life and her part in the work of redemption. The central mystery of her life and person is her divine motherhood, celebrated both at Christmas and a week later (Jan. 1) on the feast of the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God. The Immaculate Conception (Dec. 8) marks the preparation for that motherhood, so that she had the fullness of grace from the first moment of her existence, completely untouched by sin. Her whole being throbbed with divine life from the very beginning, readying her for the exalted role of mother of the Savior.

The Assumption completes God's work in her since it was not fitting that the flesh that had given life to God himself should ever undergo corruption. The Assumption is God's crowning of His work as Mary ends her earthly life and enters eternity. The feast turns our eyes in that direction, where we will follow when our earthly life is over.

The feast days of the Church are not just the commemoration of historical events; they do not look only to the past. They look to the present and to the future and give us an insight into our own relationship with God. The Assumption looks to eternity and gives us hope that we, too, will follow Our Lady when our life is ended.

The prayer for the feast reads: "All-powerful and ever-living God: You raised the sinless Virgin Mary, mother of your Son, body and soul, to the glory of heaven. May we see heaven as our final goal and come to share her glory."

In 1950, in the Apostolic Constitution , Pope Pius XII proclaimed the Assumption of Mary a dogma of the Catholic Church in these words: "The Immaculate Mother of God, the ever-virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heaven."

With that, an ancient belief became Catholic doctrine and the Assumption was declared a truth revealed by God.

Father Clifford Stevens writes from Tintern Monastery in Oakdale, Neb.

[irishtenor]

So it is all a fable, a fairy tale. I thought so.

[Krodg]

The printing press had yet to be invented.

Thanks for the help. One more question....when was the New Testament canon determined?

[NeoCaveman]

One more question....when was the New Testament canon determined?

You are welcome. Someone else can answer that better than I. It was all written by or about 100 AD, but the canon was completely settled closer to 400 AD or so.

[Gamecock]

Ohhh, I know: Pope Calvin II, or how about Pope John Knox II?

I'll tell you what I'm gonna do, you pick one, I'll be the other, then we can round out the Pope playing cards! We Calvinists can have as many schisms as the RC church!

[irishtenor]

I ain't in Calvin's or Knox's league. I guess I can be Pope Obnoxious the III. You can be IIII or IIIII.

[ladyinred]

Again, thank you for the very informing answer to my question. Appreciated.

[redgolum]

Point taken. I am getting ready to go out and set up a deer stand, and maybe scout out a place to fish (sleep on the bank during the day). :)