Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces"

Catholic News ^ | 10/30/03

[Land of the Irish]

Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces"

The Vatican's Cardinal Roger Etchegaray has moved to stress that the Holy See regards China's "Patriotic" Church, which is loyal to the Government, as part of the universal Church.

There is a view that the "underground" Church, which sees itself as defying the Government in order to to mantain loyalty with Rome, is the only "true" Catholic Church in China.

Cardinal Etchegaray, retired president of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, spend ten days in China at the end of last month. In the past he has frequently served as the Pope's diplomatic envoy.

He denied the existence of a divide between the underground and Government-recognised patriotic elements of the Catholic Church.

"There is only one Church with two faces," he said. "There is not one 'patriotic' Church and one 'underground' Church, one legal and the other protesting."

Australian Oblate priest John Wotherspoon, who lives in Zhaoqing in southern China, commented to CathNews this week that Cardinal Etchegaray received a cool reception from members of the "underground" Church, who regard him as the "devil incarnate" for his attempts to foster reconciliation between the underground and patriotic "faces" of the Catholic Church in China.

Fr Wotherspoon believes that western media gives a distorted account of the Church in China because of its strong reliance on organisations such as the Cardinal Kung Foundation, which is committed to promoting the cause of elements of the underground Church that are hostile to the Government.

He described as one-sided, this week's report that police in north-east China raided a religious retreat and arrested about a dozen Catholic priests, while a church in the vicinity was demolished.

Cardinal Etchegaray acknowledged that there have been setbacks in relations between the Holy See and the Beijing regime. He expressed his hope that "harassment" and even "persecution" would come to and end.

At the same time, the cardinal acknowledged some false steps on the part of Vatican officials in their dealings with China. He was apparently referring to the canonisation of 120 Chinese martyrs on 1 October 2000 on a date observed in China as the most important national holiday.

SOURCE Only one Catholic Church in China, Vatican prelate says (Catholic World News) Cardinal Etchegaray Receives Raoul Follereau Peace Award (Zenit)

LINKS China arrests priests, demolishes church (28/10/03) China demolishes church (AFP/Herald-Sun) China8.org (Fr John Wotherspoon's website) Cardinal Kung Foundation | Approximately A Dozen Underground Roman Catholic Priests and Seminarians Were Arrested and Another Church Was Demolished in China China arrests five "underground" priests (7/7/03) China tightening its grip on Catholics (3/6/03)

30 Oct 2003

[Land of the Irish]

Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces"

It's Rome that is two-faced by allowing real, underground Catholics in China to suffer martydom at the expense of maintaining "relations" with a bunch of child aborting, state "Catholics" who don't even acknowledge JP II as their Pope.

[Land of the Irish]

Ping

[sinkspur]

It's Rome that is two-faced by allowing real, underground Catholics in China to suffer martydom at the expense of maintaining "relations" with a bunch of child aborting, state "Catholics" who don't even acknowledge JP II as their Pope.

Why did Pius XII never openly condemn the Nazis?

Was he not protecting Catholics who lived in Nazi-dominated countries?

Would the underground Catholics be treated BETTER if JP II ragged on the Red Chinese?

You just can't resist whipping JP II, can you?

[Land of the Irish]

PROTEST OF CHINESE CATHOLICS AGAINST PATRIOTIC BISHOPS
Refuse To Participate in Ordination of Priests

BEIJING, AUGUST 10 (ZENIT.org-FIDES).- Chinese Catholics
conspicuously criticized the August 6 decision of Beijing's
Patriotic Bishop Michael Fu Tieshan to ordain 4 priests (3 from the
Chinese capital, and 1 from Nanjing).

The Mass was concelebrated by Bishop Fu and Nanjing's Bishop Liu
Yuanren, president of the Chinese Episcopal Conference (not
recognized by the Holy See), as well as 3 other priests. However,
an additional 14 priests who were invited to concelebrate, refused
to participate in the ordination ceremony.

No sooner did Bishop Fu Tieshan and the candidates to the
priesthood enter in procession, than a number of the faithful left
the Church. The clergy's and faithful's criticism, however, did not
end here. The candidates to the priesthood themselves requested
that the ordination not be held in Natang, Beijing's "official"
Cathedral (and Bishop Fu Tieshan's See), but in Beitang (the
Catholic Cathedral prior to the advent of Communism).

According to sources of the international agency "Fides," "Clergy
and faithful of the Catholic Church in Beijing are showing growing
disapproval of the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association's Bishop
Fu Tieshan who, in their eyes, is not in a position of clear
communion with the Holy See."

Bishop Fu took part in the unlawful ordination of bishops in
Beijing on January 6. On June 24, on the occasion of another
illicit Episcopal ordination, Vatican spokesman Joaquin
Navarro-Valls said in an official statement that "An Episcopal
ordination without an apostolic mandate is a painful wound to
ecclesial communion and a serious violation of canonical
discipline."

Another sign of the faithful's disapproval was the meager
participation in the ordination celebration; only 700 people
attended. In general, the 8 o'clock Mass on Sunday morning gathers
around 1,500 people in the Beitang Cathedral. The previous day, the
faithful distributed leaflets including the Vatican Press Office
statement regarding the unlawful June 24 Episcopal ordination.

According to "Fides" sources in the Chinese capital, President
Jiang Zemin appointed Bishop Fu Tieshan head of the delegation to
represent Chinese religions at a World Peace Meeting to be held at
the U.N. headquarters in New York at the end of August. The
organizers of this event have not invited the Dalai Lama in order
not to provoke a negative reaction by the Chinese regime.

At present, there are some 11 million Catholics in China. Just over
half of this number belong to the clandestine Church that is
faithful to Rome. The Catholic Patriotic Association is a church
controlled by the Communist government; it does not accept
communion with the Pope, regarding this as foreign interference.

[Unam Sanctam]

Obviously there has to be some allowance for diplomacy, so that a Gallican accomodation can be made that would still allow the Pope to have the final say in appointing bishops. However, these words of the Cardinal surely go way too far. The Patriotic church is more like the Church of England under Henry VIII. There still might be a hope of reconciliation of the schism, but it hasn't happened yet. Until the Patriotic Church recognizes papal supremacy in fact as well as the Pope's spiritual supremacy, they can't be considered in full communion.

[Land of the Irish]

Why did Pius XII never openly condemn the Nazis?

Oh, he did, "Abe".

Was he not protecting Catholics who lived in Nazi-dominated countries?

He protected Catholics, Protestansts and Jews.

Would the underground Catholics be treated BETTER if JP II ragged on the Red Chinese?

At least they would suffer and die knowing their Pope acknowledged them and cared for them, rather than pandering to their oppressors.

[Salvation]

China indeed is a sad situation. We need to pray for the "real" Catholics there. The ones who are being persecuted.

[Salvation]

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China arrests a dozen Roman Catholic priests, seminarians; demolishes church

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Cardinal declares China has "one Church with two faces"

[sinkspur]

Oh, he did, "Abe".

Pius XII never condemned the Nazis after the Dutch Bishops, early in the war, condemned Hitler, and Dutch Catholics and Jews were rounded up.

Pius XII's interventions were behind the scenes.

[Dajjal]

Cardinal Kung Foundation

[OpusatFR]

If he condemned the Chinese version of the Church there would be no way the West could get inside it and attempt to steer it in the proper course. It would also endanger a lot of authentic Catholics and unnecessarily provoke the Reds.

There is a lot of realpolitik involved. Unfortunate, but they are dealing with the World afterall.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

The only "schism" in China is between a small minority of Patriotic Bishops who reject Rome and the rest of the Church, and who the Chinese government and world media make to speak for the whole of the Church in China in the interests of promoting division. The faithful and clergy and seminarians are one. You other articles only demonstrate vividly the reality of this truth.

Amusingly given the position you are takign here, it is the "official" Church that retains the Tridentine Mass, while the "underground" Church uses the Novus Ordo out of "loyalty".