Sexual Abuse in SOcial Context: Catholic Clergy and Other Professionals

Catholic League Website ^ | February 2004 | Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights

[AlguyA]

"My church has never had an abuse problem."

When you say, "my church," do you mean your own congregation or are you saying "no Baptist church has ever had an abuse problem."

[Titanites]

Maybe you need thicker skin if something like that is going to upset you so bad.

LOL. Youre the one who had to run off on a tagent with all the rants about personal flames, etc. You could have ended it all with one post but I guess you had to let pride get in your way. I think you are the one who needs thicker skin.

Nice talking to you.

[ninenot]

Yes to all of the post.

[ninenot]

Right.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I didn't mean it to sound complaining about them not presenting data on how many coverups in other organizations there were. I meant it, and I said it, that wouldn't that data be as important if the reason given to me for collecting the data in the first place was legit.

As I stated in an earlier post, the cover up is as bad as the crimes themselves. Does the Catholic Church want to fix that problem as well? Why don't they need the data on that?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I'm saying the church I attend which is an independent baptist church has never had an abuse problem.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I didn't run off on a tangent and rant. I pointed something out to someone who was being rude. You seem to be the one on a tangent. LOL....over nothing more then a capital letter. Your funny:)

Becky

[AlguyA]

"I didn't mean it to sound complaining about them not presenting data on how many coverups in other organizations there were. I meant it, and I said it, that wouldn't that data be as important if the reason given to me for collecting the data in the first place was legit."

Yes, indeed, that data would be important. Which is why, if you'll go back and reread the article, you'll see the author DID provide information on cover-ups in other segments of society. Specifically, the New York City School District.

"As I stated in an earlier post, the cover up is as bad as the crimes themselves. Does the Catholic Church want to fix that problem as well?"

You apparently are woefully uninformed about what has transpired in the Church over the last couple of years. Yes, the Catholic Church HAS moved to address the issue of cover-up. Specifically, dioceses now have independent review boards whose job it is to investigate complaints. Thus, removing the onus for such decisions from the bishops.

Why don't they need data on that?

I'm sure they would love to have data on that. Unfortunately, the press seems far less interested in pursuing stories concerning Protestant denominations. I believe there are several reasons for this. First, many of the 'mainline' denominations are their friends. There pro-abortion, pro-gay, etc. Hence, their not nearly as interested in exposing these denominations. As evidence, consider the press treatment of different dioceses. The press (nationally) went nuts about a fairly conservative bishop's actions in Boston, but far less attention has been paid to Caridnal Mahoney's mess out in California. Second, for denominations such as yours, gathering data would be almost impossible. If a priest commits abuse and is then moved, there is a paper trail and a heirarchy to hold accountable. In your type of structure, if a pastor commits abuse and it comes to light, the pastor can simply move to another state and set up shop in another church. You basically have few hiearchical structures to monitor. Third, also with respect to your denomination, -and no disrespect intended- you guys really don't have the deep pockets which will attract the vultures (read: big law firms.)

And we haven't even begun to address the role the psychological profession played in this crisis in the '80's.

[AlguyA]

"I'm saying the church I attend which is an independent baptist church has never had an abuse problem."

Well, then, we have something in common. The church I attend -a Catholic parish- has also never had an abuse problem. Indeed there are thousands of Catholic churches (parishes) which have never had abuse problems.

[Aquinasfan]

My church has never had an abuse problem.

How do you know?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I am truly glad that your particular parish has never had a problem, and I believe your statement 110%. But the fact remains that your parish is still part of the RCC, therefore it makes it suspect. Ever hear the old adage "Your known by the company you keep."

That is one reason why I believe being part of a large world wide denomination is not what Jesus intended his churches to do. Members can seperate from a church that has gotten off the narrow path.

You guys want to lump my church in with all other Baptist, Protestant, and NC churches and say we have had problems too. But that is not correct. We are under the guidance of the Pastor, he answers to no one, other then God and the members of the church.

But ONCE AGAIN, none of this has anything to do with the article, you all are leading the topic off on a rabbit trail.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

What a silly game your playing here.

But if it makes you happy, your right , I guess there is the possibility that we have someone in our church who is as good as covering up as the RCC Bishops did/do.

If that should ever prove to be the case, once the coverup was uncovered, if the perps were not fully ousted and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, I would leave that church immediatly. I would find another IFB church and continue on.

Becky

[Aquinasfan]

as covering up as the RCC Bishops did/do.

Which ones? As far as I know, the number of American bishops who covered up abuse cases can be counted on one hand. And the American Catholic population represents about 5% of the world's Catholics. So it's hard to paint the entire Church with a broad brush, although it doesn't seem to present a problem for you.

If you're going to leave every church that has sinful clergy, you're going to be in a state of perpetual motion. Even Jesus chose Judas as one of the Apostles.

[GirlShortstop]

I believe your statement 110%. But the fact remains that your parish is still part of the RCC, therefore it makes it suspect.

Becky, I see your "suspect" comment as really very peculiar in light of the article's factual representation (which I believe you've acknowledged that the FACTS exist -- but you had an issue with what the compilers included in scope, more FACTS than you deemed necessary).  Why do you persist in the face of the facts (that you acknowledged) to tenuously hang on to your bias?

BTW, there have been no incidents of sexual abuse in my parish (the parish of my parents, and grand-parents) either.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

So it's hard to paint the entire Church with a broad brush, although it doesn't seem to present a problem for you.

I see you're continuing with the silly game.

No it is not hard to say that the actions of a few calls the whole into suspect.

Isn't that exactly why your "How do you know" question was asked. Once things like this came out, it put the whole Christian community under suspicion. Suspicion that something could be going on is not the same as saying for certain things are going on.

Every church has sinful clergy but once again you are exaggerating what I said. So far, the sins of my clergy as far as I know, have not broken any laws that would/should casue them to serve jail time. IF something like that came up, and they were NOT prosecuted because others in the church stepped in and saved them from being prosecuted I would leave.

Becky

[sitetest]

Dear GirlShortstop,

My parish - founded in the 1880s, has no known incidents of abuse.


sitetest

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

As one great Catholic said:), "How do you know?:)

I don't dispute the facts. I just wanted to know WHY the facts were necessary.

Indeed, to discuss the incidence of sexual abuse committed by Roman Catholic priests without reference to the level of offense found among the clergy of other religions, or to that of other professionals, is grossly unfair.

Why?

It is the belief of the Catholic League that no meaningful conversation can take place on this issue without having some baseline data regarding the incidence of abuse that occurs outside the Catholic Church. That was the sole intent of this special report, and if it contributes to that end, then it will have been a success.

Why?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

LOL

How do you know?

Becky

[Aquinasfan]

How do you know?

I don't know with certainty, but with a high degree of probability, since lawyers sponsoring class action lawsuits have made it very easy for victims to come forward. We can know this with a high degree of probability since the number of false claims far exceeds the number of proven claims.