Sexual Abuse in SOcial Context: Catholic Clergy and Other Professionals

Catholic League Website ^ | February 2004 | Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights

[Torie]

Catholic bashing, or the bashing of any religion, or those that subscribe to no religion on this mortal coil, is always an ugly undertaking, but I think what got the Catholic Church in trouble was not so much the abuse, but the institutional harboring and cover-up of the abuse in times past. I don't think other Christian denominations have faced the charge of harboring and cover-up. But yes, it is time to move on. I think the hierarchy of thee Catholic Church got the message, for whatever reason, even if it is only a pecuniary one.

If I have learned anything from Sinkspur on this topic, it is that the sins of the hierarchy should not be visited upon the flock, or their profound belief in that which cannot be traduced by the sins of mere man. Leaps of faith are not subject to the vicissitudes of mortals. They reign in the realm of the eternal, which is beyond the reach of mortals.

That is my take anyway.

[dsc]

"OK, maybe if I had read the whole article"

Do you mean to tell me that you went on for 90+ notes stubbornly arguing your take on the article without having even READ it?

Amazing.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Is what is amazing is your reading comprehension.

I hadn't read the WHOLE article. That usually means some of it was read. I read most of it. I have gone back now and read the whole thing, and still come away with the same impression I had before.

Becky

[ninenot]

PayNo...has been a flamer for years.

His screenname is very appropriate.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Which Payno would that be:)?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

BTW, did you see the thread about the moderating on the Religion Forum. Altho not a "written" rule it was clearly stated in that thread that when a poster is speaking of another poster by name in a post they should receive a courtesy ping to that post. I guess courtesy is not your strong point.

Becky

[dsc]

"Is what is amazing is your reading comprehension. I hadn't read the WHOLE article."

If you hadn't read the whole article, you hadn't read the article. My reading comprehension is fine; perhaps you should take a Midol and work on your linguistic skills.

"I have gone back now and read the whole thing, and still come away with the same impression I had before."

No surprises there. It takes flexibility, honesty, and courage to say, "I was wrong."

[Titanites]

I guess courtesy is not your strong point.

That's funny coming from you. Maybe you could find the courtesy to capitalize 'Catholic' when you refer to my church.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Ok, I will concede that this is POSSIBILY a reason for gathering this data. But why is there no data included about the number of other denominations/groups where superiors covered up the crime? Wouldn't that be pertinate?

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Well I see the CATHOLIC tactics are coming out in full force. Piling on:). What does any of this have to do with what you or dsc have said.

Becky

[Titanites]

You are the one who brought up the subject of courtesy.

[Aquinasfan]

You said it all in #76.

[Aquinasfan]

The way to stop the critisims is to deal with them strongly and forcefully. That has not been done.

See #76. Is your church taking these measures?

[AlguyA]

"But why is there no data included about the number of other denominations/groups where superiors covered up the crime? Wouldn't that be pertinate?"

Before entering into a discussion of 'why no data' on other denominations, allow me to ask a question, first. Were we to produce such data, would you then accuse us of 'trying to make ourselves feel better?'

You see, you've placed us in something of a 'darned if we do, darned if we don't' situation. On the one hand we present data showing abuse in other sectors of society and you attack us for it. When we then give legitimate reasons for producing the data, you then demand more data on how other denominations handled abuse, thus setting us up for another attack.

Can you see how some might question your motives given this method of argumentation?

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Not with you I didn't. The man I was speaking too, was flaming me. I just called him on it. You were not involved at all, even as he wasn't at the time. His and your comments had nothing to do with the article. They're just personal flames to throw up a smoke screen and steer the conversation away from the topic.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

My church has never had an abuse problem.

Becky

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Yeah I know why you question my motives. You're CATHOLIC:) It's about the only thing you can do.

Becky

[Titanites]

It does seem funny to me that many, not all, catholics did not like having NC tell them how they felt the problem should be handled.

They're just personal flames to throw up a smoke screen and steer the conversation away from the topic.

LOL. All I do is ask for a little courtesy, just as you did, but you start whining about personal flames. It's ok for you but not for me? Talk about a double standard. Here, to make it simpler for you to understand my request in terms that aren't personal flames, let me put it in your own phraseology:

BTW, did you see the thread about Open Theology: A Response to John Piper by Dr. Gregory Boyd on the Religion Forum. Altho not a "written" rule it was clearly stated in that thread that when a poster is speaking of another poster's church by name in a post they should capitalize the name of the church. I guess courtesy is not your strong point.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I wasn't talking to you, just as I wasn't talking to the other guy. He said something about me being a flamer. Just came out of the blue and started in with the name calling. Good heavens if you can't see the difference then there really isn't anything else to say.
As far as the capitalizing. I usually capitalize the first word in a sentence and that's about it. I am always not captilizing things I should. Sometimes I capitalze Catholic sometimes I don't. I am truly sorry for offending you with that, and will make an effort to do it when I am speaking with you. BTW, I don't captilze my own denomination most of the time.

Maybe you need thicker skin if something like that is going to upset you so bad.

Becky

[AlguyA]

"Yeah I know why you question my motives. You're CATHOLIC:) It's about the only thing you can do.

Actually, I never personally questioned your motives. What I did was point out the inconsistency of your logic whereby first you complain about Catholics presenting data comparing the problem of abuse among other segements of society and then you complain when Catholics DON'T present data comparing how that abuse was handled amongst other segments of society.

Such inconsistency tends to lead one to think you just want to complain rather than engage in serious dialogue and examination.

Can you see, now, how some could be led to this conclusion and would you like to actually continue with the discussion?