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To: ksen
I did a paper on how people were saved during Old Testament times...

How were people saved in old testament times? I get the distinct impression that they were not actually saved until new testament times. Did any man actually get to heaven before the man, Jesus?

35 posted on 02/06/2004 1:49:02 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o* &AAGG & FMOPWAODSDNPOPTML)
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To: P-Marlowe
How were people saved in old testament times?

The same way we are today, through grace by faith. The only difference was the revelation of Christ was not yet complete.

I get the distinct impression that they were not actually saved until new testament times. Did any man actually get to heaven before the man, Jesus?

I think being saved and getting to Heaven are two different things. When we are saved we don't immediately go to Heaven. There is time as we are sanctified through the working of the Holy Spirit.

I believe they were saved, but I'm not sure they went to Heaven until after Christ went there first. I probably shouldn't guess further until I read up some more on it first.

39 posted on 02/06/2004 2:02:14 PM PST by ksen (This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth I bid you stand, Men of the West!)
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To: P-Marlowe
Prior to the first coming, Jesus Christ as the Incarnation, some men became believers, hence their faith was counted to them as righteousness, saving them from a condemnation to eternal torment.

However, until the Perfect Sacrifice was presented to God the Father, there was no payment for sin to remove the separation of death. Believers were therefore recorded as being placed in Abraham's Bosom until the doors were unlocked by Jesus Christ when He descended after the crucifiction.

I haven't done the homework to discern whether or not some men may have reached perhaps the first rather than the second or third heaven, but doctrinely I'd adhere to the position that no man advanced to heaven other than perhaps Adam prior to the fall. A quick review of OT Prophecy might yield any contradictions. It's also interesting to note that the Church Age was not mentioned in the OT, whereas it receives considerable attention in the New Testament, especially in NT Prophecy.

Here's a paradox for the Calvinist. If God predestined, even elected some men to salvation prior to the creation of the world, then they were elected prior to their creation and their existence and salvation determined before they were condemned. Their being was in His knowledge before he created them, yet without being there is no object for the election of salvation.
48 posted on 02/07/2004 5:21:40 AM PST by Cvengr (;^))
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