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To: 1stFreedom
From my interpretation of Calvinism, works are considered "obedience" and alongside faith one is justified.

The "alongside" is what mars your definition of Calvinism -- and Rome's understanding of Salvation.

One little word -- but what a big impact. I'll compose a full response.

Do I belive this verions of works? No. It's just an attempt to whittle down works while focusing on faith. Calvanism seems to argue that if you are faithful, then you must be obedient. Christ taught love more than obedience. Works out done out of obedience may still be pleasing to God, but not as pleasing as works from the heart. An "active" obedience is required from a Christian, but IMO, it's part of faith. It *is* true that we need to actively obey God. That's not the issue. Works, when done from the heart and out of love and charity, are not works of "active obedience." I can get my kid to do things he dosn't want to, and he's not doing it out of faith or love. He does it "actively" because he doesn't want a time out or he want's something from me. That's not love. See the difference? I'd go on but I'm tired. I'll resume in the morning.

In order to keep our terms matched, I'll use the term "obedience" as regards Faith in my response... but I'm not really understanding this dichotomy between "love" and "obedience" you're drawing, there's no real corollary in Calvinistic understanding.

I understand that outward obedience can be compelled without a matching inward love... but if someone Obeys out of a humble, desperate awe and appreciation of the salvation which has been wrought for him, how is that not a Loving Obedience? Which is Calvinism's view of the matter.

As I said, I'll put together a proper response for your consideration on the morrow. Sleep well.

best, OP

32 posted on 02/24/2004 8:52:11 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
OP,

Challenging posts. I'm ill with the flu, trying to move into a new apartment, and trying to work all at the same time. Needless to say, I don't have the mental energy to formulate a reasonably intelligent response.

However, I suspect that by Friday I'll be doing much better and will have a good response for you.
56 posted on 02/25/2004 12:50:38 PM PST by 1stFreedom
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