Posted on 03/15/2004 6:40:12 PM PST by narses
King Josiah reigned in around 641BC so it must have been written well before this time to have been sealed in the temple.
Indeed.
In fact, King Josiah used the recorded Law of God to restore a religious and cultural life in Israel which had veered dangerously off course.
Not at all unlike what the early Protestants did.2 Chronicles 34:1 Josiah was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem one and thirty years.
2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in the ways of David his father, and declined neither to the right hand, nor to the left.
...
8 Now in the eighteenth year of his reign, when he had purged the land, and the house, he sent Shaphan the son of Azaliah, and Maaseiah the governor of the city, and Joah the son of Joahaz the recorder, to repair the house of the LORD his God.
9 And when they came to Hilkiah the high priest, they delivered the money that was brought into the house of God, which the Levites that kept the doors had gathered of the hand of Manasseh and Ephraim, and of all the remnant of Israel, and of all Judah and Benjamin; and they returned to Jerusalem.
...
14 And when they brought out the money that was brought into the house of the LORD, Hilkiah the priest found a book of the law of the LORD given by Moses.
15 And Hilkiah answered and said to Shaphan the scribe, I have found the book of the law in the house of the LORD. And Hilkiah delivered the book to Shaphan.
16 And Shaphan carried the book to the king, and brought the king word back again, saying, All that was committed to thy servants, they do it.
...
18 Then Shaphan the scribe told the king, saying, Hilkiah the priest hath given me a book. And Shaphan read it before the king.
19 And it came to pass, when the king had heard the words of the law, that he rent his clothes.
20 And the king commanded Hilkiah, and Ahikam the son of Shaphan, and Abdon the son of Micah, and Shaphan the scribe, and Asaiah a servant of the king's, saying,
21 Go, enquire of the LORD for me, and for them that are left in Israel and in Judah, concerning the words of the book that is found: for great is the wrath of the LORD that is poured out upon us, because our fathers have not kept the word of the LORD, to do after all that is written in this book.
...
29 Then the king sent and gathered together all the elders of Judah and Jerusalem.
30 And the king went up into the house of the LORD, and all the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the priests, and the Levites, and all the people, great and small: and he read in their ears all the words of the book of the covenant that was found in the house of the LORD.
31 And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.
32 And he caused all that were present in Jerusalem and Benjamin to stand to it. And the inhabitants of Jerusalem did according to the covenant of God, the God of their fathers.
33 And Josiah took away all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of Israel, and made all that were present in Israel to serve, even to serve the LORD their God. And all his days they departed not from following the LORD, the God of their fathers.
Moses, Joshua, Josiah, Ezra, and Jesus all are recorded as reading publicly.
Recorded by whom, when and where?Exodus 24:4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD.
6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
Moses, Joshua, Josiah, Ezra, and Jesus all are recorded as reading publicly.
Recorded by whom, when and where?Joshua 34:30 Then Joshua built an altar unto the LORD God of Israel in mount Ebal,
31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
32 And he wrote there upon the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he wrote in the presence of the children of Israel.
33 And all Israel, and their elders, and officers, and their judges, stood on this side the ark and on that side before the priests the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, as well the stranger, as he that was born among them; half of them over against mount Gerizim, and half of them over against mount Ebal; as Moses the servant of the LORD had commanded before, that they should bless the people of Israel.
34 And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.
35 There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.
Moses, Joshua, Josiah, Ezra, and Jesus all are recorded as reading publicly.
Recorded by whom, when and where?Nehemiah 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
2 And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.
3 And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people;) and when he opened it, all the people stood up: 6 And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.
7 Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.
Moses, Joshua, Josiah, Ezra, and Jesus all are recorded as reading publicly.
Recorded by whom, when and where?Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Jesus apparently considered the scriptures (alone) to ba a wealth of Godly wisdom ...Mt 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mt 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
Mt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mt 21:16 And said unto him, Hearest thou what these say? And Jesus saith unto them, Yea; have ye never read, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise?
Mt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
Mt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mr 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
Really? Got the original? Or are you just taking someone's word for it?
Recreating? How can something that is unbroken be re-created?
The Fathers of the Church created the CHURCH, with its practices of WORSHIP and THEOLOGY that has remained unchanged -- at least in the Orthodoxy as much as possible.
The Protestants created something in their own image, and keep re-recreating it with gay ministers and ordained women and practice-as-you-will, rock-pop "churches." But that's not Christianity of the Church Fathers. I think it's just bad imitation.
Good try! By doing what? Reading the Bible that wasn't there when Jesus was teaching the Apostles?
Protestantism doesn't resemble anything like the original Church, or worship. Not even close. Just off course.
King Josiah reigned in around 641BC.
Really? Got the original? Or are you just taking someone's word for it?
Noone seriously disputes this. Do you ?
The Fathers of the Church created the CHURCH, with its practices of WORSHIP and THEOLOGY that has remained unchanged -- at least in the Orthodoxy as much as possible.
You have said it!
The church of which I am part is the Church of Jesus Christ, founded, peopled, and empowered by God.
The orgranization which you claim was created by the so-called Fathers of the church has become quite a different thing altogether.
Luther recognized this and cried out against it ... as have millions more after him.
The Protestants created something in their own image, and keep re-recreating it with gay ministers and ordained women and practice-as-you-will, rock-pop "churches."
Jesus, Himself, said that the Enemy would sow tares among the wheat.
"Leave them alone," He said ... for He, Himself, shall separate such tares from the wheat at the coming judgement.
What the Protestants did in the 1600's was to go back to the original teachings of Jesus and the Apostles.
Good try! By doing what? Reading the Bible that wasn't there when Jesus was teaching the Apostles?
By reading the writings of these very Apostles.
Noone but Jesus knows better what He taught.
It is clear from Paul's writings that he also oriented his belief around what was written.
Their references to what was written was the Torah, not the Gospels. Paul's Epistles are one of the earliest writings. The Gospels followed in succession.
Clearly one could not be referirng to something that is written in the future tense.
Jesus was not referring to the Gospels (there were none at the time); He never said to His Apostles "write this down." He preached and He directed his Apostles to preach. His teachings, whether written or not are of equal importance. Who are we to judge which of His teachings to discard as "tradition of men?"
Judging from what you are saying, it is suggested that perhaps Jesus thought the Talmud to be corrupt. I was not aware that Jesus rejected the Talmud because it was a "tradition of men."
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