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Letter of Rev. Fr. Charles Murr to Parish and Parents
April 5, 2004 | Rev. Fr. Charles Murr

Posted on 04/06/2004 7:57:38 AM PDT by CatherineSiena

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1 posted on 04/06/2004 7:57:38 AM PDT by CatherineSiena
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To: CAtholic Family Association; Pyro7480; Canticle_of_Deborah; Maximilian; NYer; Unam Sanctam; ...
ping
2 posted on 04/06/2004 7:58:08 AM PDT by CatherineSiena
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To: CatherineSiena
I would think that Egan, who's more of a CEO than a spiritual shepherd, would be sending the sheriff to arrest the school administration, given that they are over $600,000 in arrears to the archdiocese!

They are clearly bad fiscal managers, as well as horrible overseers of Catholic religious education.

But, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Egan can't stand in O'Connor's shadow.

3 posted on 04/06/2004 8:04:15 AM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; attagirl; ...
Ping
4 posted on 04/06/2004 8:05:21 AM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: All


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5 posted on 04/06/2004 8:05:27 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (I'd rather be sleeping. Let's get this over with so I can go back to sleep!)
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To: CatherineSiena
I have heard nothing good about Egan. I though all the new Vatican appointments were more Catholic than the Pope? I guess this one slipped through?
6 posted on 04/06/2004 8:13:00 AM PDT by johnb2004
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To: CatherineSiena
Finally a priest who tries to fix the tremendous problem of faulty catechesis, and look at what they do to the good pastor (a true shepherd indeed!).
7 posted on 04/06/2004 8:13:32 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: CatherineSiena
Interesting find. Are you a member of this parish?
8 posted on 04/06/2004 8:23:12 AM PDT by ELS
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To: johnb2004
Never trust anyone who came to power via Boston. Ever. For anything.
9 posted on 04/06/2004 8:27:40 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus
Interesting. I guess that would explain O'Malley? He was touted as "conservative". Looks like he is not much different from the rest of 'em.
10 posted on 04/06/2004 8:29:55 AM PDT by johnb2004
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To: johnb2004
They called Egan a "conservative" when he was appointed archbishop of NY. AFAIK, a Cardinal who closes a beautiful church (St. Ann's Cathedral) and sells it to the USPS to be torn down is not conservative.
11 posted on 04/06/2004 8:34:04 AM PDT by ELS
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To: CatherineSiena
Very interesting. That was my wife's parish in NYC. She lived at 227 E. 96th St. - one block down.
12 posted on 04/06/2004 8:43:49 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: johnb2004
In the media, "conservative" means he won't pay for the taxi to the abortion clinic. From what I can tell, he's another radical-kook lefty who knows only of the corporal acts of mercy. Some rather conservative types here on FR hold out hope for him, but I have none. I am starting to believe that the Pope will allow Boston, Los Angeles, and other liberal areas be literally God-forsaken, so that they may fruitfully be compared to the more orthodox areas.
13 posted on 04/06/2004 8:44:42 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CatherineSiena
Thanks, Kate... By the way, could you ping your list to this topic: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1111824/posts?page=50#50

It's a vanity post asking about marital vocations and Christian sexuality.
14 posted on 04/06/2004 8:47:29 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CatherineSiena
On Friday afternoon, Msgr. Thomas Gilleece, the Chancellor of the Archdiocese, informed me without further explanation that, by order of the Cardinal, I was to renew the employment contracts of the principal, the vice principal, and all the affected teachers.

Nobody held accountable, nobody punished (except the whisteblower) with the creeps allowed to continue as before. Discouraging and hurtful, but not surprising.

The message from the corruptors is "we'll destroy all you hold dear, rot the church with scandal, corrupt your children, remodel your altars, change your prayers, mock God and the flock and drain your funds to further our agenda... and there's not a damn thing you or anyone else can or will do about it."

And they're right, most don't do anything about it. Except pay lip service, pretend there isn't a problem or aid these foul creeps in their quest to turn our respective sanctuaries of worship into maggot's nests.

They're busy filling our clergy, education structure and lay-leadership with leftists, apostates and homosexuals, attracting more leftists, apostates and homosexuals, and recruiting our chilren to be leftists, apostates and homosexuals.

Doing something about this nonsense (as this pastor and some others in the laity are) is what we call works. God's work to be precise.

15 posted on 04/06/2004 9:09:04 AM PDT by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
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To: CatherineSiena; Askel5; Romulus; ventana; tiki; eastsider; Coleus; ELS; frogandtoad; ...
Everybody and their brother read this! And call Cardinal Egan's phone till it melts.

Ping your list if you have one, please....

So, Siobhan, what do you think of Cardinal Egan?
When he stops smoking with Satan I'll tell you.

16 posted on 04/06/2004 9:11:39 AM PDT by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: Siobhan
Time to start investigating Egan.
17 posted on 04/06/2004 9:21:57 AM PDT by Desdemona (Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.)
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To: dangus
[I am starting to believe that the Pope will allow Boston, Los Angeles, and other liberal areas be literally God-forsaken, so that they may fruitfully be compared to the more orthodox areas.]

It is not within His Holiness' discretion to do so. It is his duty before God to appoint only holy, orthodox, and courageous men to the episcopate. If men of bad faith and character "slip through", then it is his duty before God to remove them and replace them with men who meet the above description. And if His Holiness finds that he is getting bad recommendations, then it is his responsibility to find new advisors.

This is basic common sense, not to mention stock Catholic Tradition.

Excusing the failure of the Roman Pontiff to select good bishops and to remove bad ones, through reference to a kind of hidden scheme in which he "punishes" the Church by purposely afflicting them with false shepherds, is not only perverse, it turns Catholic moral theology and the Church's perennial Tradition on its head.
18 posted on 04/06/2004 9:32:16 AM PDT by DPalm
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To: Siobhan; AAABEST; Desdemona; johnb2004; dangus; Hermann the Cherusker; Unam Sanctam; ELS; ...
Didn't Egan first show his true colors to the world when he tried to remove Frank Pavone from his Priests for Life ministry? I believe Egan caved in from all the pressure.

I put Egan in the same boat with McCarrick. They are to me political animals who care little about their own souls or the souls of their flocks.

19 posted on 04/06/2004 9:34:19 AM PDT by old and tired (Go Toomey! Send Specter back to the Highlands!)
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To: DPalm
Well said. Too often, words like yours are misread as disloyal.
20 posted on 04/06/2004 9:38:16 AM PDT by johnb2004
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To: old and tired
I put Egan in the same boat with McCarrick. They are to me political animals who care little about their own souls or the souls of their flocks.

That's too harsh. McCarrick is a very good man, who very much cares about the souls of his flock.

Egan does too, he's just not a very effective shepherd.

21 posted on 04/06/2004 9:39:55 AM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: CatherineSiena; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; Polycarp IV; narses; ...
Another refuses to teach her students to make the Sign of the Cross.

When my daughter returned home on her first day in catholic school Kindergarten, pinned to her uniform was a picture of a child making the Sign of the Cross. Her homework assignment was to practice that for the following day. I still have that beautiful reminder from her catholic school days.

God bless Fr. Murr for making a sound decision. His reward will come later.

22 posted on 04/06/2004 9:43:08 AM PDT by NYer (The Maronite, works, builds, and plants as if he is celebrating the liturgy. - Father Michel HAYEK)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: Siobhan
A preliminary "headline" search of Egan and a quick scanning of a few articles gives us:

Support of marriage and the unborn

No cooperation with the national review board for the USCCB or with lawyers trying to depose him in a sex abuse trial in 1999 in Connecticut

Scathing rebukes from SNAP (although, Rigali got those too), and some pretty clear dissing of the whole sexual abuse victims

Good credentials including Gregorian in Rome, although in the 1950's.

He did spend time in the Vatican under this pope and was known to him.

My guess: David Souter type appointment. A wildcard that wasn't detected. I also saw one article that he fancies himself the chief kingmaker here in the USA. Somehow, I doubt that at the moment.

In the meantime, keep an eye out and see if he shows up on EWTN. Has he? That's usually a pretty good indication of how orthodox a bishop is.
24 posted on 04/06/2004 10:04:39 AM PDT by Desdemona (Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.)
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To: CatherineSiena
This is so sad. Why, why, why do the good get punished by those who know better and the bad are allowed free rein?
25 posted on 04/06/2004 10:17:35 AM PDT by TradicalRC (Mea minima culpa.)
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To: sartorius; sinkspur
Does McCarrick or Keeler oversee Emmitsburg? Does McCarrick oversee the seminary at Catholic U? And isn't that (the seminary at CU) one of the Pink Palaces? I know from my sons and their friends that the Catholic U seminary was loaded with homosexuals back in the seventies and eighties, but I suppose many were then.

I was personally acquainted with McCarrick while living in Metuchen back in the eighties. As the bishop of Metuchen, McCarrick was in a position to correct many abuses (of which I am CERTAIN he knew)while there. He chose to do nothing. Furthermore, while McCarrick was living in the cathedral parish, the priest at the head of the CYO there was a fairly well known homosexual predator. He was finally removed from ministry last year. (In fairness to McCarrick, I don't know for a fact that he knew about that priest, but if he didn't, he wasn't listening to his flock).

26 posted on 04/06/2004 11:10:01 AM PDT by old and tired (Go Toomey! Send Specter back to the Highlands!)
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To: old and tired
CU is a pink palace.
27 posted on 04/06/2004 11:16:40 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CatherineSiena
I'm very impressed by the pastor's actions and words in this letter, as well as the actions of the Parish Council and others. Now the ball is in the Cardinal's court.

Egan is a very confusing person, as far as I can tell(although I no longer live in NYC, so I only get to find out what's going on there when I visit). He seems basically orthodox, but he certainly hasn't been very responsive on a lot of issues. He also has all the personal charm of a frozen mackeral, from what I have seen, and seems to make a habit of simply not responding.
28 posted on 04/06/2004 11:52:28 AM PDT by livius
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To: johnb2004
[ I am starting to believe that the Pope will allow Boston, Los Angeles, and other liberal areas be literally God-forsaken, so that they may fruitfully be compared to the more orthodox areas.]

I forgot to add one more detail. How does this theory hold up in the face of the Arlington, VA example, in which a string of orthodox and fairly forceful bishops has now been followed by what appears to be the ecclesiastical equivalent of an Al Quaeda agent? Honestly, I fear for us here in the La Crosse diocese and who we'll get to replace Bishop (now Archbishop) Burke. Some things are turning around here. Are we going to get a subversive now to put a stop to that, like they did in Arlington?

"johnb2004" wrote:

[ Well said. Too often, words like yours are misread as disloyal. ]

Thank you, John. What an unpleasant reality we are faced with, eh?

God bless,

David
29 posted on 04/06/2004 1:01:31 PM PDT by DPalm
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To: DPalm
Truth is seen as error and error is seen as truth. If one even questions that Rome should consider cracking down on dissent one gets the standard arguments about a terrible schism may occur, as if there is not one now, or the heterodox are left in place for some grand scheme.

I pray and hope. I do not follow the logic of allowing heresy and error to be propagated for so long.
30 posted on 04/06/2004 1:15:17 PM PDT by johnb2004
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To: DPalm
Honestly, I fear for us here in the La Crosse diocese and who we'll get to replace Bishop (now Archbishop) Burke.

Do you go to St. Mary's Oratory in Wausau, where the Institute of Christ the King has the Traditional Mass?

31 posted on 04/06/2004 2:20:16 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Pyro7480
[ Do you go to St. Mary's Oratory in Wausau, where the Institute of Christ the King has the Traditional Mass? ]

No, I go to St. Mary's Ridge, WI where the Institute of Christ the King has the Traditional Mass. See the beautiful church, the gorgeous surrounding countryside, and even a photo of my oldest son at his First Holy Communion in the photo gallery here:

http://www.institute-christ-king.org/cashton/index.html

Speaking of this, any of you intrepid souls who have wanted the traditional Latin Mass in a truly rural setting, think about moving to be with us. Several families already have and there are several more in the wings. You can contact me at:

djpalm64@yahoo.com
32 posted on 04/06/2004 2:31:37 PM PDT by DPalm
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To: DPalm
I'd love to, if I was married, and if I had a different profession/degree. I have lived all of my life in big cities, and wouldn't mind the change.
33 posted on 04/06/2004 2:40:29 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: DPalm
I was talking to someone the other day and they said your diocese had the most lattitude as far as Tridentine Mass. Did the bishop approve these on a case-by-case basis, or did he give free license to do Tridentine Mass. How many Tridentine Masses are there in the diocese?
34 posted on 04/06/2004 3:10:11 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: dangus
That was funny. Who was it that said that the American bishops think being conservative means being to the right of Walter Mondale?
35 posted on 04/06/2004 3:41:16 PM PDT by dstoker
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To: AAABEST
You're right--but to hear some Conservatives tell it, it is springtime in the Church. You can't shake them from that over at EWTN.

If this is springime, then I would like to see what they call the dead of winter.

I once remarked to a Liberal male religious, a male nun, as some of my priest friends joke, that we owe no obedience to heretics. His response: "That's the first time I've heard that." I kid you not.
36 posted on 04/06/2004 3:45:29 PM PDT by dstoker
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To: dstoker
This "springtime in the church" is modernistic propaganda BS. Just because they say it and wish it doesn't make it so.

Besides sounding good and catchy it means absolutely nothing. Like Clinton's "bridge to the 21st century". Coming up with shiny keywords accomplishes zero.

I'd love to know what actions are being taken to bring about this "springtime". What is being done doctrinally, dogmatically and at the command level to clean up some of the nonsense we read about every single day? NOTHING.

The document coming out (supposedly) this week to address liturgical abuses is mere lip service with no teeth whatsoever. Bloviation, nothing more. The heretics are left to their heresy and the homosexuals are left to their destructive ways. The scandalous bishops are left to decimate the flock and spit in God's face.

Meanwhile "orthodox" types make a sport out of bashing trads, who seem to be the only ones worthy of excommunication anymore. The bad guys are the ones who worship as Catholics have been doing for hundreds of years, while the good guys are the ones that worship with heathens.

Jesus warned us of this. "Springtime" my foot.

The reason this person you describe doesn't know anything is because he wasn't taught anything. An acquaintance of mine went through 4 years of Catholic High School and was shocked to find out just a few weeks ago that Catholics fast on Fridays. Nobody told ever him because they don't teach Catholicism anymore. The catechism and the Catholic schools are an abject disaster and getting worse as we speak.

Do these "springtime" wordsmiths think that things will just fix themselves when we continue to devlolve and welcome the devil into the front door? If so they're fools.

THERE IS NO SPRINGTIME

And there won't be one until we start taking our church back from the leftists, heretics and homos who seek to destroy it.

37 posted on 04/06/2004 4:14:05 PM PDT by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
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To: CatherineSiena; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
"Since I could not in good conscience, as a pastor charged with the care of souls, comply with this order, I resigned as pastor of the Parish of St. Francis de Sales and as administrator of the Parish of St. Lucy."
38 posted on 04/06/2004 6:01:17 PM PDT by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
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To: DPalm
David,

Just read through this thread. A very warm welcome to FR!
39 posted on 04/06/2004 7:55:39 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (The Missing Key of the Pro-Life Movement is at www.CpForLife.org)
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To: DPalm
any of you intrepid souls who have wanted the traditional Latin Mass in a truly rural setting, think about moving to be with us. Several families already have and there are several more in the wings.

Beautiful website and beautiful photos. I heard that the editor of "Full of Grace" newsletter of simple living for Catholics was thinking of moving to your parish. I thought of it when I saw the horse-drawn buggy in front of the church.

40 posted on 04/06/2004 9:20:56 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: CatherineSiena
I had some acquaintance with Cardinal Egan when he was bishop of Bridgeport. He is personally impressive, gives a good sermon, and appeared to be theologically sound. I read his monthly columns in the diocesant paper, and they were always sound.

There were problems in the diocese, but it's hard to know how much of that a bishop is responsible for. He certainly showed NO signs of being a liberal or of being sympathetic to dissent.

But I have to say that he has NOT done a good job in New York. Maybe the job is too much for him. Maybe he lacks the necessary determination that Cardinal O'Connell had. In any case he has certainly made some terrible mistakes.

The ostensible reason for giving Fr. Pavone a parish was that all priests should pitch in and help, and that's hard to argue with. But Fr. Pavone was far too important doing the job he was doing (and still seems to be doing). It sent the wrong signal.

No doubt parishes needed to be closed. But did he close the right ones? It seems not.

I have to admit that I also knew Cardinal Law many years ago, and HE seemed to be sound too. He had a reputation as a conservative. The liberals didn't like him. But he obviously had huge problems nevertheless. I hope Egan doesn't follow the same path.
41 posted on 04/06/2004 9:40:57 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: DPalm
We all have our speculations as to how and why things are happening the way they are in our Church. My own is that His Holiness has been ill for a very long time. He presides over the Church Universal, not just our little corner of it. He needs to rely on others for good information and recommendations. I think that this is where the situation in America got away from His Eminence. We were given over to some dull examples of shepherds. Many of them, including a very ineffectual and criminally neglectful Bernie Law, thought they were members of the oligarchy. It became more important to wrangle tax advantages and schmooze over lunch with Teddy Kennedy than it was to see that the Faith was propagated as it should have been.
42 posted on 04/06/2004 10:12:08 PM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: CatherineSiena
Fr. Murr should contact one of the priests interviewed in "Priest, Where is Thy Mass". He may have a nice independent chapel or SSPX affiliation in his future where his loyalty to Catholicism will be well appreciated.
43 posted on 04/06/2004 10:28:09 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: AAABEST
Your Post 15 is concise, clear and unambiguous. In brief, I could not have conveyed the message better.
44 posted on 04/07/2004 1:55:08 AM PDT by Robert Drobot (God, family, country. All else is meaningless.)
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To: firebrand
This is the school where I was sent to close polls last election. Didn't know I was walking into a den of iniquity. :-/
45 posted on 04/07/2004 5:09:40 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: AAABEST
Many of the Conservatives in the Novus Ordo, taking their lead from outfits, such as EWTN, argue that the bishops are our "fathers in God" and that we owe them obedience NO MATTER WHAT. Didn't the ancient Egyptians have the same deal with their high priests? Never mind, of course, that many of the bishops don't even believe in Jesus Christ anymore and openly teach so through their seminaries. In the Novus Ordo, cowardice is the virtue of choice.

The truth is that many of the Novus Ordo bishops in the US are criminals, heretics, seditionists--they can run us down in the street like dogs and then get community service as penalty. Even the good ones are not so good because they tolerate the evils in their mitred brothers and are willing to hold communion with them no matter what.

It was not so in the early days of the Church.

Do you remember that old movie, "Catholics: A Fable"? I loved that scene in the movie wherein the abbot compares the manner of the young investigator sent from Rome to the ways of the "old days". That really disturbed the Liberal--because it was true. Liberals can play the part of inquisitor when they want to do so. Interesting how the abbot was an atheist; that movie was produced many years ago,yet the protagonist is a prelate, who has entirely lost his faith--which is the problem with many of our bishops today. They don't believe in the Risen Christ--but they DEMAND to be obeyed in the same way that Ambrose, and Athanasius, Leo I, and Gregory I were in their time.

But the sheep still know the voice of the true pastors.
46 posted on 04/07/2004 7:10:44 AM PDT by dstoker ("Catholic: A Fable"--a Fable??)
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To: hellinahandcart
Thank you for your much-needed help in 2002. I didn't know either, of course.

I can't believe that some on this thread on still arguing the Latin mass when we obviously have much more serious problems, such as this subversive infiltration of our children's Catholic schools. Do yourselves and the Church a favor, my friends, and get off the Tridentine kick and into Jesus Christ.

47 posted on 04/07/2004 9:15:58 AM PDT by firebrand
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To: firebrand
subversive infiltration of our children's Catholic schools

It can't be called subversive if the diocese would rather the priest leave than the principal or any of the teachers. Obviously they know about it, obviously this is what they want. I just can't figure out why, unless there is blackmail or something else criminal involved.

48 posted on 04/07/2004 9:29:10 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: hellinahandcart
They are up a tree for staff--principals and teachers both--who will work at their abysmal salaries. Last thing they need is a strike.

The problem is deeper: lack of commitment by real Catholics to educating the young. As the sisters diminish in numbers, we need a different approach. How about a proactive campaign for good Catholic teachers?

Heard the good cardinal yesterday at the Chrism Mass. Blessing holy oil for the entire year, while Catholic kids are getting their religious instruction undermined.

I love my church, but its priorities are wack.

49 posted on 04/07/2004 9:36:22 AM PDT by firebrand
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To: firebrand
Heard the good cardinal yesterday at the Chrism Mass. Blessing holy oil for the entire year, while Catholic kids are getting their religious instruction undermined.

Yesterday? Well, there's part of the problem. That Mass is supposed to be tomorrow. The Chrism Mass is supposed to be on the morning of Holy Thursday. If your bishop bends on that, Lord only knows what else he'll bend.
50 posted on 04/07/2004 9:53:52 AM PDT by Desdemona (Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.)
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