Defiant Lutheran congregations appoint active gay pastors

Duluth News Tribune ^ | Apr. 15, 2004

[Between the Lines]

SAN BERNARDINO, Calif. - In defiance of Lutheran doctrine, active homosexuals have been appointed pastors at three congregations, including one in Minneapolis.

The Rev. Jennifer Mason, 41, will be installed Sunday at Central City Lutheran Mission in San Bernardino, followed on May 2 with Hollywood Lutheran Church's installation of the Rev. Daniel M. Hooper, 56, and ceremonies July 25 for the Rev. Jay Wiesner, 30, at Bethany Lutheran Church in Minneapolis.

The move defies the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America's rule against active homosexuals in ordained ministry.

As the nation's fifth-largest Protestant denomination, with 10,700 churches and five million members, the Evangelical Lutheran Church ordains gays but requires them to be celibate.

The Hollywood and San Bernardino churches would be Southern California's first Evangelical Lutheran bodies to call an openly gay man or lesbian as a pastor.

Bishop Murray D. Finck of the Lutheran Church's Pacific Synod, which includes San Bernardino, said he was surprised by Central City Lutheran's decision to call Mason as associate pastor. He urged the church to reconsider.

Hooper and Mason were duly ordained as ministers in the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. But they were later removed from the official church clergy roster when the church was informed they were in committed same-sex relationships.

"There are two different kinds of religion under the same denominational banners," the Rev. Christopher Hershman, president of Allentown, Pa.-based Evangelical Lutheran Confessing Fellowship said Wednesday.

"One says what the churches taught for the last 2,000 years. The other approach says the Bible was a witness at its time, and people have moved beyond that to a higher sense of enlightenment," Hershman said.

The Rev. Steven Benson, pastor of Bethany Lutheran Church, said emotions are running high about the situation.

"The possibilities of deep division, and perhaps even schism, are there," he said.

A decade ago, the denomination expelled two churches in San Francisco for appointing clergy who were living in same-sex relationships. Since then, more than a dozen other churches in the denomination have appointed non-celibate gay men and lesbians as pastors, but the denomination has not tried to expel any additional churches.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

The ELCA is going downhill fast. My parents' pastor encouraged members not to see "The Passion of the Christ" because he claimed it was antisemitic. Just another reason I'm headed for the LCMS.

[onedoug]

Hollywood Lutheran provided some good growing examples for our daughter who'd often go for Sundays with her grandmother. I can still hear the ever optimistic Navy vet, Pastor Durkee and his trademark, "Blessings On You!"

Oh, but we're told, "The Bible was a witness at its time, and people have moved beyond that to a higher sense of enlightenment."

I don't believe it.

[TonyRo76]

*Lutheran ping!*

[TonyRo76]

My parents' pastor encouraged members not to see "The Passion of the Christ" because he claimed it was antisemitic.

Are you serious??? That is truly stunning. My pastors have each incuded at least one plug for the Passion every Sunday since it opened.

Just another reason I'm headed for the LCMS.

Good choice.

[TonyRo76]

Additional info for those fed up with the ELCA's blatant disregard for God's Word...

Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ within the ELCA, for now
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
Evangelical Lutheran Synod
American Association of Lutheran Churches
Church of the Lutheran Confession

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

Are you serious??? That is truly stunning. My pastors have each incuded at least one plug for the Passion every Sunday since it opened.

Sadly, I am serious. The pastor even joined with local pastors from liberal denominations to put an ad in the paper saying this publicly. My parents and their church friends, who all saw the movie, were dumbfounded. Apparently the pastor did see the film and was not at all moved (direct quote from him!). That's just the tip of the iceberg with this pastor, unfortunately.

It is a bit difficult to make the ELCA/LCMS switch, since my fiance is quite unchurched (but wants to convert) - I truly hope that an LCMS congregation around here will be accepting of him.

[TonyRo76]

It is a bit difficult to make the ELCA/LCMS switch ... I truly hope that an LCMS congregation around here will be accepting of him.

I can sure understand the quandary you're in. I'm glad to say there are good churches in the LCMS that are friendly and open to seekers and "baby" Christians. It's really a matter of trial-and-error, finding just the right home. But by all means, don't ever give up! :)

Truth be told, I'm in an ELCA congregation myself—yet our pastors are all solidly Evangelical in their doctrine and the comment's been made that we're "even more conservative" than some LCMS churches.

I get the feeling we won't be part of the ELCA much longer. Which is fine by me; I'm a convert to begin with! I'm just sad for the folks whose families have been part of this denomination for years/decades/generations. That's gotta be a difficult thing to countenance.

Anyway, I'll keep you & your fiancé in my prayers!

[redgolum]

Best of luck to you sir! I have a good friend in an ELCA sem right now. He is in a battle for his faith every day. He won't become LCMS because he would be kicked out of his family, but he doesn't like the way things are headed.

For instance, there is a plan to change ALL gender references in the Bible to non gender ones. Some profs say Jesus's death was not for a sacrificial atonement but to show "solidarity", and who knows what else.

I pray for him often.

[sojourner]

All I can say is, this same kind of stuff, including a recent local discussion of the ELCA's proposed efforts to bless same-sex unions and ordain people involved in same, is driving me toward Catholicism. I can't quite stomach LCMS -- a bit too extremist for me.

[sojourner]

I'm just sad for the folks whose families have been part of this denomination for years/decades/generations. That's gotta be a difficult thing to countenance.

I agree. This stuff has got to be a lot harder for lifelong Lutherans.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

Thank you for the prayers. I'm more concerned about how he'll be treated than anything dealing with me making the switch.

My mother was actually raised WELS and married a then-Baptist (my dad). They always attended LCMS churches (I was actually baptized LCMS) and it was not an issue until we moved to the east coast. The Missouri Synod church here was unpleasant enough that it drove us to the ELCA right as it was being formed from all the mergers in the mid-80s.

You're very fortunate to be in a "good" ELCA congregation. Many congregations and pastors today could barely be considered Christian, much less Lutheran.

[TonyRo76]

Some profs say Jesus's death was not for a sacrificial atonement but to show "solidarity"...

Time magazine did a cheesy front-cover article for Holy Week about the Crucifixion, and true to their totally vapid understanding of Christianity, they gave lots of ink to that shallow, heretical view. They also attributed the atonement "theory"(!!!) mostly to Anselm!

As if I didn't already know before, Time sucks.

[TonyRo76]

Wow, that's a shame you had such a bad experience with the LCMS before.

From what I've read, it's true of pretty much all the “Big 5” Protestant denom's, including the ELCA, that the Church in certain regions or states leans more theologically conservative. And it stands to reason—how else could you have honest, God-fearing Episcopalians in Texas so chagrined about the apostasy of a homo bishop in N.H.?

Anyway, I'm very blessed to be in the Southern Ohio area where even our ELCA bishop is a good Bible-believing Christian. And yet, the flak he gets from certain radical feminazis and homo advocates around here...yikes!

[Honorary Serb]

As if I didn't already know before, Time sucks.

RIGHT! Not only does Time suck, but its parent corporation, AOL Time-Warner sucks big-time. That especially goes for their subsidiary CNN which has lied and continues to lie against our Serbian Christian brothers and sisters. One of their "stars", Christiane Amanpour, practiced "advocacy journalism" in Bosnia, with no regard for the truth. A lot of what ordinary Americans believe about what went on their is really her lies!!! And her lies had consequences, with people killed and lives ruined.

If you want to see why I am called "Honorary Serb", please look at some of the Balkan threads on FR. It is very enlightening, especially for Lutheran Christians.

Back to the subject of this thread---when I saw the headline "defiiant Lutheran congregation", I though that it would refer to a congregation that would DEFY the revisionist drift of the ELCA!!!! Sadly, I was mistaken. The gays and revisionists want to peck us to death, one peck at a time, with incidents such as this one. Then, they hope, we willl give up, and give in to their demands, across the ELCA.

As an Evangelical Orthodox Lutheran in a very liberal synod, I will have few if any Lutheran alternatives if the ELCA "goes gay". I will probably become a capital-O Orthodox in that case.

[TonyRo76]

ohwow
Since Apr 16, 2004

I smell an atheist troll!!!

[NeoCaveman]

I smell an atheist troll!!!

Who is spamming religion threads.

[TonyRo76]

One of their "stars", Christiane Amanpour

A despicable woman, she is.

"advocacy journalism" in Bosnia, with no regard for the truth.

Not surprising. The whole CNN cabal, including Time etc. were nothing but shills for Clintigula. What really galls me about the whole Bosnia thing is that we went in there based on no vital U.S. interest whatsoever, to drop bombs on Serbian Christians on behalf of a bunch of Muslims! Talk about ridiculously bass-ackwards foreign policy! Anyway...

As an Evangelical Orthodox Lutheran in a very liberal synod, I will have few if any Lutheran alternatives if the ELCA "goes gay". I will probably become a capital-O Orthodox in that case.

There's a nice list here of the various Lutheran church bodies throughout the U.S. and Canada. Check out any of them besides the ELCA, and you might find some very appealing alternatives. I just posted a few of them above.

[hellinahandcart]

Doin' good there, Tony.

ahadams2 has been a real rock for the Episcopalians on FR, glad to see someone is doing the same for Lutherans. I'm only sorry it's necessary.

But this sort of thing really HELPS during a crisis, trust me.

[TonyRo76]

Thanks handcart! I really appreciate your encouragement, and I'm honored to do it.

Agreed it's a shame that such discussion is even necessary regarding the church itself, which is called to be the communion of Christ's saints right here on earth! But OTOH, Peter and Paul both warned us about these things (false teachers, godlessness, etc) in their epistles.

Anyway, my thanks to ahadams for giving me the idea on another recent thread :)

Hope you each have a blessed weekend!

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Thanks for the ping TOny...You want participation in the million mom march, radical environmentalism, anti war rally organization, support for unmitigated immigration, UN adoring, and of course push the gay thing down your throat...the ELCA has got it.

ELCA is trying to introduce gay studies in youth confirmation now.....glad I left

My former pastors are doing all they can to hide the actions of the ELCA from their congregation...pretty sad!

[sauerkraut]

I feel sorry for all of you in the ELCA. Honestly, however, the LCMS has its share of problems right now and I'm not sure anyone should come running to us for safety until we get our own house in order.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

For example?

[Luircin]

WELL, at least it'll make it so I don't have to be abstainent to be ordained. </ sarcasm>

From the 7 months or so that I've been in the ELCA, I've realized that my congregation is one of those old-time Lutheran congregations and so the various shocks aren't felt very much around here. Also, from the various ELCA newsletters that I've read, the gay pastors and gay weddings are very much a major clash in the denomination. So far I think that the prevailing attitude is to encourage homosexuals to worship, but not to condone their behavior. However it seems that the big cheeses at HQ who have forgotten their ordination vows think differently.

[Rubber_Duckie_27]

So far I think that the prevailing attitude is to encourage homosexuals to worship, but not to condone their behavior.

You might have something here. My parents' congregation is in a liberal college town, and their pastor is of the same mindset...yet most of the members are lifelong Lutherans and are much more conservative both religiously and socially. I have NO IDEA how this guy got past the call committee.

They do have a lesbian couple that worships there, and their kids are in Sunday School. Truthfully for a long time I thought the two women were sisters who brought their kids to church together. They don't act like a couple, and seem like very private, non-militant types, which is UNUSUAL in the area. The congregation has been open to them worshipping and especially to bringing their kids, but made it very clear to the liberal pastor that a "commitment ceremony" or something similar will NOT be happening in their church. The couple accepts that - interesting that they chose this congregation over the liberal local Protestant churches that publicize how "welcoming" they are for gays.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

Just being in the ELCA you are supporting the agenda. Your money is going to lobby politicians on radical environemetal issues . They spent 2.2 million on the ongoing sexuality studies designed to muddy up the issue. They contribute your donations to the National Council and World Council of churches. They financially support the AMerica hating Lutheran World Federation (HAnson is president)

Your money is supporting things that are in conflict with the core beliefs of your congregation

It does not matter if you guys are supporting it...you're money goes & they claim you as one of their five million when they lobby against the war and lobby to change the sexuality stance of the US military.

Go to WWW.ELCA.ORG

Do a google on the Lutheran Youth ORganization COnference in Georgia

You will run.

[TonyRo76]

Sad, but true - Bttt!

[TonyRo76]

Your money is supporting things that are in conflict with the core beliefs of your congregation

Steps are being taken already at the congregational level, in numerous communities, to choke off the funding for all this NCC/WCC/liberal crap. Many local churches, mine included, have ceased sending any money at all to the ELCA head honchos.

Our local church is a part of the Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ, a network of Biblically faithful churches across the USA who are working currently within the ELCA framework, but are already preparing for the day that we must part ways with the ELCA.

Once the ELCA surrenders to the queers, the LCMC will probably become the new denomination for conservative former ELCA churches and...who knows?...maybe we'd join forces with other confessing parishes or small-but-faithful Lutheran denoms! (But that last part's just me speculatin' :)

In any case, while we must wait on the Lord's timing (the Reformation itself didn't happen overnight, remember!) I'm encouraged by the positive developments now happening, which will secure good, Bible-based teaching and fellowship for those of us seeking it.

[sauerkraut]

It only takes one word: Benke.

[Archie Bunker on steroids]

I'm new to the LCMS & wanted your take on some problems creeping into it.

[BQ91]

Well, I am a very conservative confessional LCMS Lay member. I am also an elected delegate to the July National LCMS covention. I have reserched all the facts, and heard all the sides. I have come to fully support President Kieschnick and will vote for him in July, I think the Benke situstion is over blown. I feel confident the our church is very ground on the true confessional Biblical Principles firmly. But must become more evangelical in our outreach to the unchurched. This means chnages the way some things our done without sacarficing our pronciples. I do not think you will ever see things such as Gays, or women minsisters, abortion or such, we are very conservative and literaly. I think our future is bright if we update our services to be more evanglelical. In any case I and everyone else I know that will be delegates are supporting Kieschnick, and I am about as conservative Theological and political as one can be.

In Christ

[drstevej]

I lived in Cape Girardeau, MO for 4 1/2 years. There are some conservative LCMS pastors there but their churches are very small. Having watched a few sermons on TV I found the sermon content sound but the style awful. They were very hard to listen to. The "preacher tone" dominated and there was no animation in their voices or faces. The audience was almost exclusively elderly people.

If this small sample is representative the LCMS seminaries better get some new homiletics professors. I'm not talking about making these guys circus clowns, but making them effective communicators who convey passion for the truth they proclaim.

[BQ91]

I truly beleive Our theolgy is as sound as any. We are truly as conservative and evangelically based as any denomination there is. In a nut shell we have to due a better job of making our services more musical and refreshing. We have a great message, but must make the presentaion better. Now the Church I attend is Wonderful, with great music, but built on conservative rock solid LCMS Doctrine. Closed Communion, sermon is also focused on Christ and Saved by Grace through Faith. But our Congregation of 1000 members is very young. We need more of this IMO. Yet this scares some LCMS orthodox Coservatives who think if we do not sing from the red or blue hymnal, (using praise music or praise band) that we are screwing up. Yet the same service is still close and has all the tradition confessionals, and a Soild Sermon! All I am saying is that a little chance in how things are done can not be all that bad, as long as we stay tur to our Principles. Losing the Bible based prinpiles is what is killing the other denominations (ie, gays, woman pastors, Abortion, ect.) I see nothing of this anywhere in the LCMS. Our fight is over how a church serve should be preformed, ect.

[drstevej]

May your tribe increase, brother. We are on the same wave mength!

[drstevej]

mength = length

[fishtank]

My main problem with Lutheranism is their beliefs on infant baptism. It's too Catholic. Other than that, Lutheranism is mostly OK, but I think too many Lutherans are unwilling to dig deeper into the Word, and are content to only go where Luther himself went.

[Johnny Gage]

Imagine the suprise these "pastors" will have when they die.

Their dream:

Their Reality: