[FactQuest]

A couple of times, there is reference to an entire wealthy household being baptised.

Very good point. I'll have to concede that round, there is indeed some biblical precedence for infant baptism. I'll have to think about that.

Also, please note that the NT is filled of phrases like, "we have been baptised in Christ." In such places, the authors probably would have said, "we have repented in Christ," if repentance brough salvation but baptism did not.

I'm not so sure about that. Baptised means more than repentance... in implies being purified, and it implies following Christ in His death and resurrection, and it implies being "washed in the blood" to use an old-timey phrase, as well as being "dunked" in the baptismal waters.

The physical manifestation of a sacrament cannot be seperated from the spiritual occurrence, just as you cannot make conjugal love to your wife over the telephone.

Let's just say I'm not yet convinced of that. Certainly, there is a man who was baptized who never repented; likewise, surely there is a man who repented without ever being baptized.

[dangus]

>> I'm not so sure about that. Baptised means more than repentance... in implies being purified, and it implies following Christ in His death and resurrection, and it implies being "washed in the blood" to use an old-timey phrase, as well as being "dunked" in the baptismal waters. <<

Exactly the point... Baptism *is* more than merely repentance. I was saying OTHERWISE the bible would use the two interchangeably, but it doesn't: It says baptism is necessary!

>>Certainly, there is a man who was baptized who never repented; likewise, surely there is a man who repented without ever being baptized.<<

Baptism can occur without the outward sign, but this is an *extraordinary* working of Christ's mercy, that permits salvation, such as instances of imminent death (i.e., the Good Thief) or invinceable ignorance.