Why Catholics can't preach - and prefer not to listen

Oriens journal ^ | Summer 2004 | Editorial

[conservonator]

Even if the circumstance presented themselves to me, I could only hope that I would be as faithful as our fellow saints. But right now there are brave souls in these Muslim countries who are preaching the word. We should be praying for their boldness and safety.

You mean like these people?

[Sensei Ern]

NO, I did not say that Catholics are like Muslims. I said, through inference, that ALL, no matter their religion,are identical in the Eyes of God...wretched and without hope of Salvation, and thusly unable to be reconciled to God, without the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus.

That sacrifice is not applied to us without a personal acceptance of Jesus as Lord.

I was merely pointing out that there is no next step for a Muslim to take, because they are so close, because they are NOT any closer than any other religion. Jesus was not the Son of Allah. He was and IS the Son of Jehovah.

Sensei Ern

[conservonator]

Wow, at first I thought that was a parody site, but I think they are dead serious. Frankly,Landover Baptist Church is a more entertaining site. :)

[conservonator]

I was merely pointing out that there is no next step for a Muslim to take, because they are so close, because they are NOT any closer than any other religion. Jesus was not the Son of Allah. He was and IS the Son of Jehovah.

The "next step" is to convert to the one true Church. I encourage you to to the same.

[Sensei Ern]

Really?

I doubt I will convert to a religious group that has a misguided man as its figurehead.

Examine the Scriptures. Whenever the Church is referred to in them, it is referring to a local body of united believers, well usually united, as the Apostles chided in their Epistles several churches for their infighting.

As for a pope. It is not in the Scriptures. Peter was given the role to open the doors of Heaven, first, to the Jews at Jerusalem, next to the Samaritans, then to the Gentiles. James was the first head of the first church, at Jerusalem; not Peter.

The reason a human figurehead is not allowed in the Scriptures is that Christ is the Head of the Church, and if you have a personal relationship with Him, you, as a Christian are His representative here on Earth.

In a local church, the pastor is not a figurehead. He is an under-shepherd. He has no more say in the actions a church takes than any other believer in that congregation.

Sensei Ern

[Sensei Ern]

COrrection, I meant James was the first PASTOR of the Jerusalem church, not head.
Sensei Ern

[conservonator]

Your interpretation of Scripture is of no interest to me.

[Sensei Ern]

Interpretation?

I believe you are referring to the following definition:
To conceive in the light of individual belief, judgment, or circumstance - Synonym: CONSTRUE ( or better, you believe I MIS-CONSTRUE)

No, do not take my word for it, if you feel I am untrustworthy. Allow the Scriptures to explain itself. Look at an English, if that is your native language, transliteration...a word-for-word translation from the original text, or go back to the original form, and examine where the same word is used that we translate to English as 'church'. See in what context it is used.

If you still do not wish to pursue knowledge in that manner, you have not refuted my first point, that the pope was misguided in thinking Islam is 'close' to being a Catholic. And, since he is misguided in that, he is not infallible, so he cannot be an earthly ruler of a Spiritual Kingdom.

Sensei Ern

[saradippity]

It's amazing to me that so many apparently do not realize what is really happening in the mid-east as well as in the rest of the world. Instead of appreciating the Pope's consistent,judicious and holy responses to the atrocities committed throughout the world and the escalating fury directed at Christians and Americans,he and the Church are denigrated and dismissed by many. He is trying to temper the turmoil and save Christianity in Western Civilization thereby saving both,and there is no one on earth that can speak with his auhority.

Those poor Chaldeans,God help them and all the innocents,for that matter.

[Campion]

Whenever the Church is referred to in them, it is referring to a local body of united believers

Which "local body of united believers" did Jesus promise to found in Matthew 16?

[Sensei Ern]

The pope has no authority given him other than by those who relinquished their will to his.

I do not relinquish mine, as God has given all believers the authority to be His Ambassadors here on Earth.

The pope does not speak for me when he condemns the U. S> for taking action in Iraq. He does not speak for me when he mis-instructs Muslims, or any other group, by telling them they only need to take the 'next step' to reconciliation to God...because they are 'so close'.

Sensei Ern

[Sensei Ern]

Every local body of believers..."Where two or more are gathered, there AM I also."

Sensei Ern

[conservonator]

Scripture is not self interpreting. Your beliefs are not based on simple scripture reading, they are based on your interpretation of those scripture readings. That is the sad reality of the heresy of sola scriptura and the rejection of His authentic Church which alone posses the authority to interpret Scripture.

Thousands of divergent interpretations can't be wrong, can they?

[conservonator]

Those poor Chaldeans,God help them and all the innocents,for that matter.

From you lips...

[Campion]

He used the singular, ekklesia, so it can't be "every" but only "one". Try reading the text, instead of reading your theology into the text.

[Sensei Ern]

It is the singular. That is because each local group of believers is the whole Body of Christ. Each group of believers is not part of the Body of Christ...else I would suspect I could classify several churches as being the nether regions.

However, this is a divergent argument. Lets first finish our debate as to whether the pope was right in saying that Muslims follow the same God as Christians.

In fact, I believe that discussion was a diversion from the first which was what again? Something about preaching, its degradation from past times, and listening, the laity's inability to hear passionate truth from the Word of God.

Sensei Ern

[Sensei Ern]

The Scripture MUST be self-interpreting. It declares Itself to be God in written form in that It attributes Itself all of the characteristics we attribute to God.

That is, It is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. It is without error. It is only good, not evil.

And finally, in the Gospel of John, It declares Itself to be God.

God cannot be defined outside of His Own revelation. Neither can His Word be defined outside Its Own revelation.

Sensie Ern

[Sensei Ern]

In a note of concern, I am afraid I am doing the Newbie thing of dominating an argument. Because of this concern, I ask instruction of proper posting etiquette on this board.

Am I monopolizing to the point of insult and impropriety? If so, please guide me.

Sensei Ern