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To: ninenot; Tuco Ramirez

Pope Leo I: "He that sees another in error and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error."

Pope St. Felix III said "Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it, AND INDEED TO NEGLECT TO CONFOUND EVIL MEN WHEN WE CAN DO IT, IS NOT LESS A SIN THAN TO ENCOURAGE THEM."

St. Augustine: "Medicinal rebuke must be applied to all who sin, lest they should either themselves perish, or be the ruin of others ... Let no one, therefore, say that a man must not be rebuked when he deviates from the right way, or that his return and perseverance must only be asked from the Lord for him." A Treatise on rebuke and grace,by aurelius augustin, bishop of hippo; In One Book,addressed to valentine, and with him to the monks of adrumetum.a.d. 426 or 427.

"The floors of Hell are littered with the skulls of bishops" is attributed to St. John Crysotystom, 300-360 A.D

Pope Pius XI: "The two opposing camps are now clearly marked; each man should choose his own. Men of good will and men of evil will face one another. The uninterested and the cowards face their fearsome responsibility. They will have their names changed if they do not change their behavior: they will be called traitors."
Yes Tuco I know that Boston has been hit in the pocket book of course Catholics should still continue to give to the Poor (this is part of the problem) but all Bishops who allow this sourt of terrible abuse of Children should be hit. But come to think of it the members of the flock whether they are adults are not are God's Children and we have been doctrinally abused, and spiritually abused and liturgically abused for 40 years of the post Vatican II wandering in the desert. I think that we should be withdrawing our purse from the Novus Ordo system and say NO to the experimentation with Modernism- the bad theology in Catholic schools, and homilies at Mass and the do it yourself New Order Mass which is endemic to the New Rite. Say NO to the religious syncratism and indifference- and yes to the faith of our fathers and our mothers who died rather than turn pagan or Protestant over the centuries. We have to get back to our Catholic roots instead of put up with the uprootedness and rotten chaff they have been feeding us which will eventually be thrown into the fire. We need another Joan of Arc, a Savonarola, a Vincent of Ferrar to wake us up from our stupor. The problem is too many Catholics today don’t even know these Saints and great Catholics. The problem is that everyone is so steeped in Modernism and their own “little parish community” because that is what the Authorities have been shoveling us for 40 years and we have forgot to pray our Rosary. We let the floodgates of the World burst in and we are drowning in a deluge!

There was "angelic" phenomena associated with Pius XII during the entire duration of his papacy (1939-58). After one of these mystical visions he reportedly told one of his assistants, "Mankind must prepare itself for sufferings such as it has never before experienced." He expressed dismay at what he saw facing humanity in the not so distant future, describing those times as "the darkest since the deluge "the hour has struck--the battle, the most widespread, bitter and ferocious the world has ever known, has been joined. It must be fought to the finish.” See http://www.maxkol.org/tchap02.htm


And Ninenot, since you are a “Torquemada gentleman” I thought I would throw in a few quotes from your patron Saint a truly great man who probably will be declared a Saint someday-

“Although it clearly follows from the ircumstances that the Pope can err at times, and command things which must not be done, that we are not to be simply obedient to him in all things, that does not show that he must not
be obeyed by all when his commands are good. To know in what cases he is to be obeyed and in what not,... it is said in the Acts of the Apostles: "One ought to obey God rather than man"; therefore, were the Pope to command
anything against Holy Scripture, or the articles of faith, or the truth of the Sacraments, or the commands of the natural or divine law, he ought not to be obeyed, but in such commands, to be passed over (despiciendus)....” --
Cardinal Juan de Torquemada (Turrencremata), Summa de Ecclesia (1489)

“ In this way, the Pope could, without doubt, fall into Schism.... Especially is this true with regard to the liturgy, as for example, if he did not wish personally to follow the universal customs and rites of the Church.... The same holds true for other aspects of the liturgy in a very general fashion.... By separating himself from the observance of the Universal customs of the church, and by so doing with obstinacy, the Pope is able to fall into schism. Such a conclusion is only just because the
premises on which it is based are beyond doubt. For, just as the Pope can become a heretic, so he is also able to do so with the sin of obstinacy. Thus it is that Innocent states (De Consuetudine) that it is necessary to
obey a Pope in all things as long as he does not himself go against the universal customs of the Church, but should he go against the universal customs of the Church, he need not be followed...." --Cardinal Juan de Torquemada (Turrencremata), Summa de Ecclesia (1489) and Commentarii in Decretum Gratiani (1519)

Thanks for your kind response and God bless you both during your spiritual pilgrimage..



28 posted on 06/29/2004 6:16:57 AM PDT by pro Athanasius (Catholicism is not a "politically correct sound bite".)
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To: pro Athanasius

Thanks for the quotes, although Tomas and Juan were different Torquemadas (I think.)

We are working on the cause for beatification of Tomas, which is slightly controversial insofar as he was the Grand Inquisitor, and utilized methodologies which are no longer PC.

Should you happen to have engineering drawings for the Iron Maiden handy, please forward.

Blessings!


29 posted on 06/29/2004 6:32:58 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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