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Did Jesus Command his Apostles to Include or Exclude the "Gentiles"
Summa Contra Gentiles ^

Posted on 07/04/2004 8:32:05 AM PDT by missyme

Jesus told his followers that they were to teach the word of God only to the chosen few: "Go not into the way of the Gentiles....but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." (Matthew 10:7)

St. Paul tells the Ephesians, "So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. (Ephesians 4:17-18)

Jesus emphasized the imminence of the end of the world and the arrival of the kingdom of heaven for the Jews: "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand....Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the son of Man be come." (Matthew 10:5-6, 23)

Thus, the end of the world would come so soon that Jesus' disciples would not even have time to spread the word to all of the Jews in the cities of Israel.

But, as the years went by without the coming of the son of God and his promised apocalypse, many Jews stopped listening to the apostles. Fearing loss of priestly power, the church fathers took matters into their own hands.

Forging New Rules for the Gentiles The church fathers decided to expand their influence by extending Jesus' promise of salvation to the ones ignored by Jesus--the pagan Gentiles-- the uncircumcised. Joseph Wheless, in "Is It God's Word?," explains: The gentiles were the superstitious pagans of Palestine, Asia Minor, and parts thereabouts; they were steeped in belief in all the fables of all the gods of the heathen world.

They knew nothing of the Jewish Scriptures or of the promised Messiah; they had no critical sense in religion, but, like Paul and his converts, believed all things and hoped all things. A new God was to them just one more god among many.

The Gentiles were ripe for harvesting, and so the priestly fathers apparently appended the following verses to the end of Matthew's gospel: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matthew 28:19-20).

What a remarkable turn-around this is: just eighteen chapters earlier, in Matthew 10.5, Jesus was telling his disciples, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles."!

The last twelve verses of Mark are also believed to be late additions [1]: "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved....And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." (Mark 16:12-20)

Perhaps the illiterate peasants to whom the fathers preached received two different messages-- depending on their faith. The Jews heard that they were the favored "lost sheep" in the first parts of Matthew and Mark--which were the only parts read to them, while the Gentiles were read the words of salvation from the forged endings: believeth and be saved.

One verse in Mark's speaks against the claim that Mark 16:12-20 was a late addition: In Mark 13:10 , Mark writes, "And the gospel must first be published in all nations."

However, on the whole, none of what Mark wrote can be accepted as anything other than pure fiction: innumerable examples exist of Mark having patterned events in Jesus' life after the lives of characters in Homer's epic, Iliad and Odyssey. Apostles' Actions Expose the Deception

As will be shown below, the apostles did not know that Jesus had evidently changed his mind and decided to allow Gentiles into the kingdom of heaven.

They could not know it because, as we have already alleged, Jesus' mind was changed only in the lying imaginations of the forging fathers. Damning proof of this is offered below, where we begin by looking closely at the behavior of Simon Peter.

A Doubting Peter Agrees to Meet Gentiles

While in a trance, Peter had a vision that he should meet with the Gentiles. His doubt about the meaning of this vision is strong evidence that Jesus never told his disciples to convert the Gentiles:

"Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean." (Acts 10:9-17). Meanwhile, a Gentile centurion from Caesarea named Cornelius had a revelation that he should meet with Peter to be converted to the all-Jewish sect (Acts 10:1-9).

Learning of this, Peter, still doubtful, met with Cornelius and his household. As further proof that Peter knew nothing of Jesus' command to his disciples to teach and baptize those of all nations, we have these words from Peter to Cornelius and his family: "Ye know how it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation." (Acts 10:17-28)

Peter, however, also told Cornelius that a revelation had tentatively led him to "perceive that...he that feareth [God], and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him." (Acts 10:34-35).

Thus, it is only through a revelation--not the fraudulent "teach all nations" command by Jesus-- that Peter was able to "perceive" that God would accept righteous Gentiles.

This is virtually certain proof that Peter never heard Jesus' tell him and his disciples to "teach all nations", and therefore that the final verses of Matthew and Mark are late forgeries.

The Apostles Were Angry at Peter The apostles also evidently did not know anything about an alleged command by Jesus to "go, teach all nations....preach the gospel to every creature", because they were upset that Peter had embraced the Gentiles:

"And when Peter had come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision, contended with him, Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them." (Acts 11:2, 3)

Peter defended himself, explained his trance vision and Cornelius's revelation, and the speaking in tongues, and then told the apostles,

"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us,....what am I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life."

(Acts 11:4-18). If the apostles ever had heard the son of God urge the acceptance of the Gentiles, and if they had actually "preached everywhere"--as alleged by Matthew and Mark, they surely never would have questioned Peter's meeting with the Gentiles.


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1 posted on 07/04/2004 8:32:05 AM PDT by missyme
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To: All

I came across this Article/Book on the Gentiles? I have alot of problems with some of the Scripture passages claiming Jesus's denial of the Gentiles any feedback would be appreciated?


2 posted on 07/04/2004 8:34:19 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme
It's important to read, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

The last word on the matter are Jesus's last words to the disciples on the Mount of Olives at His Ascension:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you".

All nations would be mostly all Gentile.
3 posted on 07/04/2004 9:07:40 AM PDT by lightman
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To: missyme
It's important to read, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

The last word on the matter are Jesus's last words to the disciples on the Mount of Olives at His Ascension:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you".

All nations would be mostly all Gentile.
4 posted on 07/04/2004 9:08:44 AM PDT by lightman
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To: lightman

So why did the Apostles question Peter when he defended his preaching to the Gentiles? just trying to understand the scripture passage...Thank you...


5 posted on 07/04/2004 9:16:59 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme
It's important to read, as Paul Harvey would say, the rest of the story.

The last word on the matter are Jesus's last words to the disciples on the Mount of Olives at His Ascension:

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you".

All nations would be mostly all Gentile.
6 posted on 07/04/2004 9:37:02 AM PDT by lightman
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To: missyme
Because it was a fundamental shift in the way of doing things.

In 1st-century Judaism, Gentiles were considered inferior to Jews, and a possible source of contamination. Jews, for instance, during Passover would not associate with the Roman officials during the trial lest they contaminate them during the passover.

Now, there were a fair number of Gentiles intrigued by the Judaic morality. It was recognized as fundamentally different from the Greco-Roman systems around, and many were drawn to that. In order to worship God in the synagogues, you had to convert -- an act not lightly undertaken, since the final part of the conversion process included circumcision. Needless to say, there weren't a whole lot of men willing to undergo surgery on their manhood, and thus, these "God-fearers" were relegated to the fringes of Judaism. Jews at best tolerated them.

So for Peter to come up, say, "I had lunch with a Roman Centurion, and he received the same sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we did"; that was revolutionary. No longer was the gospel limited to faithful Israel and those few willing to undergo conversion; rather, it was extended to all, both Jew and Greek.

7 posted on 07/04/2004 9:37:50 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: missyme
The Gentiles were ripe for harvesting, and so the priestly fathers apparently appended the following verses to the end of Matthew's gospel: "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Matthew 28:19-20).

However, on the whole, none of what Mark wrote can be accepted as anything other than pure fiction: innumerable examples exist of Mark having patterned events in Jesus' life after the lives of characters in Homer's epic, Iliad and Odyssey. Apostles' Actions Expose the Deception

This is virtually certain proof that Peter never heard Jesus' tell him and his disciples to "teach all nations", and therefore that the final verses of Matthew and Mark are late forgeries.

You need to be more discerning in your sources. This website is ignorant and heretical. I know of no respected scholar that argues that Mark was taken from the Illiad and the Odyssey. Anyone can pontificate on a website.

8 posted on 07/04/2004 9:42:59 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: jude24

Thanks for the reply, I was just reading how Peter needed Cornelius to understand how salvation was granted to the gentiles....It is amzing how things changed after the first church in Antioch...


9 posted on 07/04/2004 9:45:29 AM PDT by missyme
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To: jude24

I found the web-site from a Book I was told to read about the first Gentiles...


10 posted on 07/04/2004 9:47:50 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme
Do yourself a favor: don't google for Christian websites. There are some very good ones, but there are some very bad ones too. It's easy to get led astray by someone with a theological quirk. (It happened to me too; my struggle was with KJV-onlyism.)

If you want to learn about the early church, I'd suggest New Testament History by F.F. Bruce. F.F. Bruce is recognized as a premier evangelical scholar -- a theological conservative that even the most liberal scholar has to admit has serious gravitas.

11 posted on 07/04/2004 9:53:26 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: jude24

Thanks!
I really have interest in how St Paul and Barnabas travels led them in spreading the Gospels, as I understand they first traveled to Barnabas home in Cyprus, but I will look into your book, I know I can count on Freepers for correct info...)


12 posted on 07/04/2004 10:01:03 AM PDT by missyme
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To: jude24; missyme

***If you want to learn about the early church, I'd suggest New Testament History by F.F. Bruce. F.F. Bruce is recognized as a premier evangelical scholar -- a theological conservative that even the most liberal scholar has to admit has serious gravitas.***

I wholeheartedly second that. You will not find a more scholarly and balanced treatment of the NT era. Bruce is, (was, he's gone to be with the Lord) great!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385025335/qid=1088960587/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/002-0367698-5797668?v=glance&s=books


13 posted on 07/04/2004 10:05:15 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Great! I have been trying to do research on the early Church since I know there is much debate regarding the first Jewish Christians and The first Gentile Christians when it comes to adhering to the Law of Moses for the new gentile believers.

It appears that Paul and Barnabas made the decision that gentile believers did not have to abide by the law of circumcision which for some of the Jews was a major problem as Belief in "Jesus" would become more of a Gentile faith, this is where I see the divide happening in the early church...


14 posted on 07/04/2004 10:19:39 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme

One easy way to spot silly heresies (like the one you quoted) is that they generally do two things this one does:

1. They try to claim that only parts of Holy Scripture are true; thus denying that the Bible is God's Word and thus infallible in the original manuscripts.

2. They try to use Holy Scripture to disprove Holy Scripture. This is again denying that the Bible is God's Word. Remember that God doesn't change (James 1:17). Where this gets tricky in understanding some portions of the New Testament is that one needs to be aware of *all* of the Bible in order to understand what's going on. As previously mentioned understanding Peter's ministry to Cornelius (Acts Chapter 10) is critical to understanding the nuts and bolts of how the Apostles were to take the Gospel to the gentiles. The visions God sent Peter in Acts 10:10-16 effectively removed the dietary restrictions of the Law (i.e. 'keeping kosher', which effected the entire Jewish household, and thus constrained Jews not to eat with, or even enter the household of a gentile), thus allowing Peter (and subsequently the other disciples as well - remember God is always consistent) to minister to the gentiles.


15 posted on 07/04/2004 10:40:49 AM PDT by ahadams2 (http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com is the url for the Anglican Freeper Resource Page)
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To: ahadams2

So do you think in gaining a accurate understanding of Jesus's teachings in the New Testament Scriptures was that Jesus did not address many of the questions that the Apostles encountered when preaching to the Gentiles because The law of Moses still applied to them?

So without the vision Peter had from GOD might the Gentiles be lost in many ways?


16 posted on 07/04/2004 10:52:33 AM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme
"So why did the Apostles question Peter when he defended his preaching to the Gentiles?"

Actually, I don't think the Apostles ever questioned Peter's message to the Gentiles.

Act 11:1 Now the apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.

Act 11:16-18 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

It doesn't sound like much of a controversy to me. They probably also compared Paul conversion and Ananias' vision for confirmation.

17 posted on 07/04/2004 11:51:45 AM PDT by HarleyD (For strong is he who carries out God's word. (Joel 2:11))
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To: missyme

Missyme,

To the Jew first, then to the Greek. Messiah Yahoshua first sent out the twelve in Matthew 10:1, later He sent out 70 disciples in Luke. Although neither of these groups were sent unto the gentiles, the numbers represent the symbolism of what was to come. Twelve representing the twelve tribes of Israel, while 70 is used in scripture to represent the nations of the world, being the numbers of descendants from Noah who formed the boundaries of the nations.

Peter's reluctance to go to Cornelius was not based upon Torah, but upon manmade law in the land by one sect of Pharisees. The NT uses the word Law(nomos) to represent several different types of laws other than Torah, which is why this word appearing in the NT can confuse many.


18 posted on 07/04/2004 12:09:06 PM PDT by Zack Attack
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To: Zack Attack

I found it to be confusing because it does say scriptually that the other Apostles were astonished that Peter would eat with a Gentile without the dietary and circumcison laws that they adhered to. This is seems to be one of the biggest dis-agreements I see in the early Church is that the First Christians (Jews) debated that the Gentile Christians needed to follow the TORAH laws to be considered part of Christ's church...


19 posted on 07/04/2004 12:21:10 PM PDT by missyme
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To: missyme

missyme,

You are correct that in the early church there did arise some conflicts between those who entered the church as 'Jews' and those who entered the church as gentiles. Paul, Peter, and James were involved in resolving these issues.


20 posted on 07/04/2004 12:55:42 PM PDT by dark_lord (DemonRat Political Platform: (1) Death to America (2) Up with Treason)
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