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Once welcomed, Boston archbishop now sees goodwill evaporate with parish closings
Boston Herald.com ^ | September 23, 2004 | AP

Posted on 09/27/2004 7:08:14 PM PDT by Land of the Irish

BOSTON - Charged with cleaning up after the clergy sex abuse scandal, Boston Archbishop Sean O'Malley took a low-key approach. He asked to be called ``Archbishop Sean,'' shunned the trappings that go with his rank, and settled lawsuits quickly - winning over many parishioners in the process.

A little over a year later, things have changed. Whether it's fair or not, some Boston-area Roman Catholics now are calling O'Malley ``The Iceman'' as he pushes ahead with plans to close almost a quarter of the parishes in the nation's fourth-largest archdiocese.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.bostonherald.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; iceman; omalley

1 posted on 09/27/2004 7:08:15 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; attagirl; ...

Ping


2 posted on 09/27/2004 7:09:15 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish

So much for the "great springtime of Vatican 2".
Sadly even the sorry state of affairs in Boston is better than at the other side of the Atlantic...
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1122942004


3 posted on 09/27/2004 7:26:30 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Land of the Irish
as he pushes ahead with plans to close almost a quarter of the parishes in the nation's fourth-largest archdiocese.

As I said on the other thread, these bishops are supposed to be on our side???

O'Malley could tell the parishoners since the diocese has no money to support the parish, if the parishoners can pay for expenses they can keep their church open. That seems fair and wouldn't cost him anything. If people are sufficiently motivated they can keep their parishes.

Independent chapels survive this way. I don't see why the diocese can't loosely do the same.

4 posted on 09/27/2004 7:45:49 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Independent chapels survive this way. I don't see why the diocese can't loosely do the same.

Independent chapels offer their worshipers sanctuary and strengthen their faith. This forsaken sinking ship offers scandal and degradation, from it's schools through it's clergy.

"Conservative" O'Malley's latest bright idea is force parents against their will to have the obscene "Talk about Touching" (which was concocted by a letist group that advocates legalized prostitution) taught to their children.

Our Church has allowed the left to do what it does best... ruin things.

5 posted on 09/27/2004 8:41:57 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
O'Malley could tell the parishoners since the diocese has no money to support the parish, if the parishoners can pay for expenses they can keep their church open. That seems fair and wouldn't cost him anything. If people are sufficiently motivated they can keep their parishes.

The article says that renovations to some of these churches would cost, combined, $100 million just to keep them from being condemned, to say nothing of continuing upkeep.

Catholics of all stripes are notorious skinflints. The only way I would consent to something like this is to assess each family, in a parish, a specific amount of money, amounting to a tithe. That's what the Baptists do.

Or, if a group of laymen in the parish want to put their names on a note to cover the shortfall, fine. But, it would be their obligation to pay the note, not the dioceses'.

I'd wager most of these alternatives were looked at, and judged unrealistic.

Any of you SSPXers want to pick up a parish in Boston? I'm sure you could get it at a discount, but you might have to pony up a couple of million to get up to code.

6 posted on 09/27/2004 8:54:01 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur
Any of you SSPXers want to pick up a parish in Boston? I'm sure you could get it at a discount, but you might have to pony up a couple of million to get up to code.

If they would allow us into any of their buildings, upkeep and funding would not be an issue.

I'm not arguing with you, but many of our chapels post their accounting in their bulletins. Despite our many sorrows, paying our way isn't one of them at the moment.

7 posted on 09/27/2004 9:00:56 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: AAABEST
Some of these churches aren't "chapels." They are large, old churches that need lots of repair to the infrastructure.

The land underneath is more valuable than the building itself.

Go make an offer. At this point, O'Malley would probably consider it.

8 posted on 09/27/2004 9:03:33 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur; AAABEST

If I was wealthy I would buy up the churches in an instant.

The main problem is the dioceses will not sell to SSPX or any traditional Catholic no matter how desperate they are for money. They would rather sell to secular institutions or government who wants the land.


9 posted on 09/27/2004 9:26:24 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
The main problem is the dioceses will not sell to SSPX or any traditional Catholic no matter how desperate they are for money. They would rather sell to secular institutions or government who wants the land.

I'd imagine they'd sell to whoever gives them the highest bid.

Can the SSPX outbid a developer?

10 posted on 09/27/2004 9:28:20 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur

I don't know the SSPX's resources but I do know traditionalists have approached bishops for purchases and been flat out denied because of their beliefs.


11 posted on 09/27/2004 9:30:25 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: sinkspur
You're probably correct regarding the current situation. At this point it's most likely a bottom line issue, so selling assets would make business sense. Usually the reason why any business sells off assets is because of poor cash flow or to offset losses.

Let's look at how they got there.

This particular entity has paid millions upon millions to settle lawsuits because of its unsavory business practices. It's lost millions more due to huge numbers of customers receiving poor management and service. The shareholders that are left are not inspired to put good money after bad, causing more cash flow problems.

Not to mention they've taken the esteemed founder's portrait out of the lobby.

Cheap Catholics and code enforcement are not what plagues diocese' such as these.

12 posted on 09/27/2004 9:32:38 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: AAABEST; sinkspur

If these churches are that old they could qualify for historic landmark status and receive funds for restoration.

I know that is a touchy subject for many bishops but it works for us in CA.


13 posted on 09/27/2004 9:35:33 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah (lex orandi, lex credendi)
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To: AAABEST
Cheap Catholics and code enforcement are not what plagues diocese' such as these.

But, code enforcement is non-negotiable, and bringing these churches up to code merely gets you to status-quo.

As I see it, O'Malley simply has no choice.

14 posted on 09/27/2004 9:36:29 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

Since some of these churches now for sale have already been desecrated by modernists, they may need to be re-consecrated (and possibly exorcized) before a valid traditional Latin Mass is once again offered at the altar.


15 posted on 09/27/2004 9:37:51 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

"I know that is a touchy subject for many bishops"

Historic landmark status prevents bishops from spending millions on modernist wreckovations, after which venerable cathedrals have been known to resemble aircraft hangers.


16 posted on 09/27/2004 9:41:45 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: AskStPhilomena
Since some of these churches now for sale have already been desecrated by modernists, they may need to be re-consecrated (and possibly exorcized) before a valid traditional Latin Mass is once again offered at the altar.

Are you sure you don't want to figure out a way to work sodomy into your post? You do it on every other thread.

I'm starting to wonder about you, Phil.

17 posted on 09/27/2004 9:42:13 PM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur
As I see it, O'Malley simply has no choice.

I would say you're correct, he walked into a disaster underway.

Boston was a once a vibrant Catholic center, to watch it fall so far so fast is tragic.

18 posted on 09/27/2004 9:44:55 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: sinkspur

"Are you sure you don't want to figure out a way to work sodomy into your post?"

Sodomy is one of the main reasons all these churches are up for sale. It doesn't take much understanding to figure that out.


19 posted on 09/27/2004 10:41:22 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Land of the Irish

This same sell-out of our sacred heritage is being repeated by bishops and cardinals from coast to coast - and those guilty remain at large - cemented in their positions of power...
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2004/09/25/state_audit_of_catholic_diocese_in_limbo/.


20 posted on 09/27/2004 10:55:01 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: AskStPhilomena
It is tragic,but certainly in keeping with the great plan that rallied the "Enlightened ones" around the time of the French Revolution. Wasn't it "Down with Crown and Tiara"?World War I was to finally put an end to the dreadful monarchs as well as the Pope and the Catholic Church.

Imagine the fury when despite the overthrow of the monarchs the Church was still puttering right along. Surely World War II would wipe out the vestiges of the Church,or so the thinking went. It didn't do the trick. Austria presents a partcular challenge to the powers that would be "gods". We must pray for that poor Catholic country.

21 posted on 09/27/2004 11:00:03 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: Land of the Irish

When our modernist "Catholic" leaders do get their hands on some money, guess where it's spent?
Check out "almsgiving XX"...
http://www.cwnews.com/offtherecord/offtherecord.cfm


22 posted on 09/27/2004 11:08:55 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Land of the Irish

Just like the liberal dissenters who are trying to use parish closings to foment disobedience and disruption to legitimate authority in the Church, you will use any excuse to slam the Church and its legitimate rulers. Your anti-Catholic bigotry is on display as usual.


23 posted on 09/28/2004 6:47:34 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: AskStPhilomena

Of for heavens sake can we close the "windows" now. It isn't spring time and I'm getting pneumonia.


24 posted on 09/28/2004 7:25:05 AM PDT by Mark in the Old South
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To: sinkspur
I'm sorry Sinskpur but you are engaging in wishful thinking. It is obvious that you have no knowledge of the situation in Boston. These are not old, parishes, that are falling apart.

Three of the communities that are rebelling are Weymouth, Sudbury and Newton. Driveways in these towns cost more than 2 acre estates in metro Fort Worth. These are the MOST wealthy communities in Boston.....think San Francisco and Manhattan. I've seen these parishes on tv and they are in good shape, that is part of the reason why people are furious!!!

Many of these parishes are deeply involved in VOTF. You talk to these people about the vocations crisis and they are furious that he is not ordaining women.

O'Malley may be just acting on Father Groeschel's diagnosis: We just need to get smaller. The sad thing is that it seems like evangelization is out of the question. These northeast Bishops need some sort of plan to evangelize fallen-away Catholics. The problem is that fallen away Catholics view the Church as too conservative! They want their divorce, birth control, female priests etc etc etc.

It's really frustrating in Boston because everyone and their brother is Catholic but nobody goes to Mass. I'm not sure how much even the freepers understand how Catholic Boston is (was.) Growing up, my town was 95% Catholic...this is not an exaggeration!!

Ultimately, Bishop O'Malley is just shrugging his shoulders...maybe he figures "let them go to Hell."

25 posted on 09/28/2004 7:33:03 AM PDT by Pio (There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church)
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To: Pio
Well, obviously not ALL of the parishes are in wealthy communities. Many are in urban locations, are old, and need much renovation.

O'Malley no doubt included some of the VOTF parishes to appear even-handed.

26 posted on 09/28/2004 7:52:52 AM PDT by sinkspur ("John Kerry's gonna win on his juices. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur
But, code enforcement is non-negotiable

In Boston? It's VERY negotiable$$ LOL!

27 posted on 09/28/2004 8:03:00 AM PDT by Gator Bill
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To: Pio
O'Malley may be just acting on Father Groeschel's diagnosis: We just need to get smaller. The sad thing is that it seems like evangelization is out of the question.

That's how I see it.  Evangelization will happen, and those 'brought into the flock' won't be lead to the den wolves as a result.  I could be wrong, but my outlook stems from Hope:  in, and for The Mystical Body of Christ.

Pax et bonum, Pio.
28 posted on 09/28/2004 8:07:11 AM PDT by GirlShortstop ( O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this... )
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To: AAABEST; sinkspur
I'm not arguing with you, but many of our chapels post their accounting in their bulletins.

Reputable Catholic Dioceses and Parishes do the same. Mine (Philadelphia, and St. Cecilia) give us the numbers every year. The most interesting statistic as far as I am concerned is that the parishoners give 4 times the amount of money needed to run the parish, and this balance of about $1 million is given to our school to subsidize 50% of the tuition.

29 posted on 09/28/2004 9:17:07 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

If you want to purchase a Church for the SSPX, it is best to do so through a dummy corporation, or using a lawyer as a front.

The very idea of the SSPX coming to a Bishop to buy a Church sounds ludicrous to me.


30 posted on 09/28/2004 9:19:32 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Pio
These northeast Bishops need some sort of plan to evangelize fallen-away Catholics.

In Philadelphia, we go door-to-door to invite the fallen away back.

The problem is that fallen away Catholics view the Church as too conservative! They want their divorce, birth control, female priests etc etc etc.

Well, they aren't really Catholics then, are they?

Ultimately, Bishop O'Malley is just shrugging his shoulders...maybe he figures "let them go to Hell."

They know the truth and they reject it. What is the Bishop supposed to do? Compell them by force to attend Mass?

The return of fallen away Catholics is something that is up to God, not man.

31 posted on 09/28/2004 9:27:16 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
O'Malley could tell the parishoners since the diocese has no money to support the parish, if the parishoners can pay for expenses they can keep their church open. That seems fair and wouldn't cost him anything. If people are sufficiently motivated they can keep their parishes.

Independent chapels survive this way. I don't see why the diocese can't loosely do the same.

fwiw - our Prot Church is run in this manner - the Church owns the building and property - but operational expenses and Pastoral compensation are the responsibility of the congregation

It does have its drawbacks - particularly during the cyclical growth and decline of congregations / pastoral turnover / capitol campaigns etc

32 posted on 09/29/2004 5:09:09 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
"The return of fallen away Catholics is something that is up to God, not man."

We're obligated evangelize as you apparently do in Philly, the "ecumenical spirit" and laziness have neutralized us. Ecumenism undermines our very attempts to bring Catholics back home.

Well, they aren't really Catholics then, are they?

I'm verrrry leery of performing lay-excommunications, that is the specialty of the neo-Catholics.

Not sure what the Bishop is supposed to do, besides granting universal indult of the Tridentine Mass. Overall, though, closing 25% of the Novus Ordo parishes is an excellent start to returning to Tradition. Maybe this is his plan.

33 posted on 09/29/2004 9:40:59 AM PDT by Pio (There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church)
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To: Pio

People who do not hold the Catholic faith, and know the Church teaches contrary to what they do hold, are not Catholics. Period.

A material heretic is someone who innocently holds a false proposition about the faith, being ignorant of what the Church actually teaches. Someone who is aware the Church condemns women priests or birth control or abortion or divorce, yet continues to hold to this belief in the face of the Church condemning it is a formal heretic. Similarly those who knowingly deny the real presence or the sacrifice of the Mass.

Most fallen away Catholics are formal heretics.


34 posted on 09/29/2004 9:47:26 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Pio
We're obligated evangelize as you apparently do in Philly, the "ecumenical spirit" and laziness have neutralized us. Ecumenism undermines our very attempts to bring Catholics back home.

It does no good to go door to door unless God his disposed the people to return. One first needs to pray for lights and grace and an increase of faith for our absent brethren.

35 posted on 09/29/2004 9:48:53 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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