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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Until I see a talking newborn, I'll have to agree to disagree about Psalms 58:3. I can't see a process where sometime between conception and birth, a baby who does not know to choose right or wrong is led away of his own lusts (James 1:14-15) transgresses the law (I John 3:4) and thus separates himself from God. (Isaiah 59:1-2)

Psalm 58:3 teaches that Infants do transgress the law.

Even if it's a "metaphor", it's still a metaphor for the teaching "Infants are Sinners" -- certainly not the teaching "Infants are not Sinners". A "metaphor" isn't something that means the OPPOSITE of what it says.

And it's not just Psalm 58:3. From the Article:

As is demonstrated by these Scriptures, any creature which is included in the Set of "Human Beings born of Adam" are, without any exceptions whatsoever, naturally Sinners and Separate from God.

Are Infants members of the Set "Human Beings born of Adam"? Indeed they are. Therefore, they fall under the teachings of these Scriptures. Since Infants are included in that Set, Infants are therefore naturally Sinners and Separate from God.

42 posted on 10/15/2004 8:47:18 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. I'll give it thought and answer further later when I have the time to give it the attention it deserves. But I must say that Psalms 51:5 does not teach sinfulness from conception. Sin and inquity is the locus of conception. A world ruled by sin. Most of us were also concieved in a house, but that does not mean we inherit the nature or guilt of a house either. We are judged on what we do, not what we inherit.(Ezekiel 18:20, Romans 2:6)


46 posted on 10/15/2004 9:15:29 AM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
The one thing I would add to the discussion is that man's spirit and his nature came from God, not from Adam's sinful nature. (Ecclesiastes 12:7, Hebrews 12:9) To say that man begins life evil would be the same as to accuse the Father of spirits of creating evil.

How can one go astray (Psalms 58:3) if he started out life depraved? The depraved have nowhere to go but up.

75 posted on 10/15/2004 9:06:29 PM PDT by Colonel Kangaroo
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