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To: AskStPhilomena; Land of the Irish; Convert from ECUSA; Salvation; Rosary; Maximilian; narses; ...

Ping for Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus!


2 posted on 11/23/2004 9:09:06 AM PST by Stubborn (It Is The Mass That Matters)
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To: AskStPhilomena; Land of the Irish; Convert from ECUSA; Salvation; Rosary; Maximilian; narses; ...

"We must mention and condemn again that most pernicious error which has been imbibed by certain Catholics who are of the opinion that those people who live in error and have not the true faith and are separated from Catholic unity, may obtain life everlasting. Now this opinion is most contrary to the Catholic faith, as is evident from the plain words of Our Lord, (Matt 18:17; Mark 16:16; Luke 10:16; John 3:18) as also from the words of Saint Paul (2 Tit. 52:11) and of Saint Peter (2 Peter 2:1) To entertain opinions contrary to this Catholic faith is to be an impious wretch." - Blessed Pope Pius IX


3 posted on 11/23/2004 9:16:48 AM PST by Stubborn (It Is The Mass That Matters)
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To: Stubborn
From The Catholic Catechism:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 (Cyprian) Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336 (Lumen Gentium, 14)

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337 (Lumen Gentium, 18)

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338 (Ad Gentes, 7)

5 posted on 11/23/2004 9:24:50 AM PST by sinkspur ("It is a great day to be alive. I appreciate your gratitude." God Himself.)
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To: Stubborn
That the Catholic Church is the first and oldest and consequently the Church established by Jesus Christ, is and must be admitted by all, because it is a fact clearly proven by Scripture and by history.

This is the crucial point. If it is indeed true that the Roman Catholic Church is the same Church as that established by Jesus Christ, then the Protestants and the "Mormons" are heretics.
21 posted on 11/23/2004 11:02:20 AM PST by Logophile
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To: Stubborn
Thank you also for posting this.

I have been studying the situation regarding the doctrine Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus for some time (years, in fact). One objection that is thrown at me is this. I assume the new covenant (i.e. the necessity of baptism) was brought in on the day of Pentecost, when the Church herself was born. However, was it then universal, or was it only when the gospel was preached? The difficulty (if there is one) lies in the fact that between one day and the next, a pagan in a far away land may be saved under the old law, but damned under the new. To a skeptic, this does not appear either feasible or possible with a just and loving God.

I am genuinely trying to find out here, and I am presenting a talk on the "Boston Hersy Case" to a group of fellow trads soon, so I'd better be prepared!! Many thanks for any light you shed on this.

31 posted on 11/23/2004 1:47:10 PM PST by davidj
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