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To: marshmallow
There is a big difference between this, however, and saying that a given command or decision is definitely not that of the Holy Ghost, which is what Marra wants to say and what in fact is said all day, every day, by those in the traditionalist movement.

Who the dickens is William Marra anyway?

First of all, Marra was not a traditionalist. Secondly, who are you to determine what somebody "wants to say". Are you omniscient?

"Dr. William A. Marra was born in Jersey City, New Jersey on February 20, 1928 of Italian immigrant parents. He grew up in Jersey City, but attended the Jesuit-run Regis High School in New York City. He went to college at the University of Detroit School of Engineering also run by the Jesuits. After college he attended graduate school at Fordham University. After his release from the military, in 1952, he began a teaching career at Fordham University that spanned nearly four decades. At Fordham he met the man he would later call the greatest influence on my life - Dietrich von Hildebrand."

"Prompted by concerns over the emerging practice of sex-education in both public and parochial schools, in 1968-69, he began a second career as a lecturer. He initially spoke to groups dedicated to fighting abuses in local schools. He also founded alternative private schools, the most notable being the Holy Innocents schools, a small chain of parent-managed primary schools. Dr. Marra served as vice-president of Catholics United for the Faith*. He founded the Roman Forum Lecture Series which often featured his friend von Hildebrand as its speaker. In addition, Dr. Marra often lectured on such varied topics as evolution, liturgy, philosophy, and seminary education."

"In later years Dr. Marra expanded his lectures to include various topics related to the condition of the Catholic Church with a special emphasis on home schooling and parental rights. He authored and co-authored numerous articles, as well as published a work in philosophy, Happiness and Christian Hope."

"Dr. Marra appeared on Mother Angelica's EWTN Network, and spoke to numerous groups of religious and clergy, including Mother Angelica's own order. He was returning from a series of seminars given in Alabama when he became ill and died from a stroke on December 12, 1998."

*From C.U.F.F.'s mission statement:
Catholics United for the Faith is an international lay apostolate founded in 1968 by H. Lyman Stebbins to support, defend, and advance the efforts of the Teaching Church in accord with the teachings of the Second Vatican Council.

69 posted on 12/01/2004 10:26:45 AM PST by Land of the Irish (Tradidi quod et accepi)
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To: Land of the Irish
Secondly, who are you to determine what somebody "wants to say". Are you omniscient?

No. I chose the wrong words. "What Marra is implying" would probably have been a better turn of phrase. I stand by my point, however. He does the same thing elsewhere in his essay when he says:

But who said that the decision to call the council was protected by the Holy Ghost?

A straw man. Nobody says "the decision was protected by the Holy Ghost". Because there is no cast iron guarantee of this, however, are we therefore to necessarily assume the opposite, i.e. that it was not the work of the Holy Ghost?

That is often the leap of logic which is taken by those who have a problem with the council.

Marra's essay could be summed up in one sentence "the pope can be wrong and has been in the past."

True enough but so what? This gives rise to a more pertinent question, however, which Marra flirts with but shys away from: "Why does that necessarily mean that he is wrong now and just as importantly, who decides if he is?"

Traditionalist or no traditionalist, one fact remains.

If the Pope's teachings and decisions are subject to Marra's (or anyone else's) second guessing, simply because there is no invocation of infallible authority, then Marra is the Pope.

It's as simple as that.

70 posted on 12/01/2004 11:59:29 AM PST by marshmallow
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