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To: thor76

"forced imposition of democracy"??? Are you getting your talking points from International ANSWER? Democracy is precisely allowing the people of a nation to through elections determine their own government. It is not alwayss perfect, but I do think that over time, much bad is corrected by having a popular voice in government. Of course there also need to be agreed human rights protections for individuals against majority rule. As for South America, please name which democratic leaders were "imposed" by the United States and which have torture chambers? Pinochet was a dictator, but he was succeeded by a democratic regime, and it is not clear that the Communist Allende would have left Chile in a position to have a true democracy. And I suppose you think it is a pity that the Sandinistas were democratically ousted from office. And as for Iraq, there is no basis in fact to say that "half the country" has been killed. The groundwork is being laid for democratic elections in January. It is too early to say whether or not the liberation of Iraq will be successful, but the signs are promising.


81 posted on 12/12/2004 6:11:12 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
but the signs are promising.

I bet they will have a fundamentalist Islamic dictator within 2 years. How about it? Shall we say $20?

85 posted on 12/12/2004 6:14:58 PM PST by kjvail (Judica me Deus, et discerne causam meam de gente non sancta)
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To: Unam Sanctam

A serious inquiry into the history of the various countries south of the border will very clearly show gross meddling in their internal politics by the US over a period of over 150 years. For very selfish reasons.

Which leaders have the US imposed on those nations? There is a very long laundry list, covering both socialist and "democratic" leaders alike. We play both sides of the fence - and have for a long time. Its called the politics of destabilization. It is very painfully obvious, and cen be readily concluded from am objective reading of history - without prejudice or jingoism.

But I will drop one very not too subtle hint. Ever hear of Haiti? Oh.....of course, we have always operated in the best interest of the Haitian peoples..........with absolutely no concern for the sugar monopolies, and other agricultural, chemical, and other multinational mega-corporations. No.....not one bit(sarcasm intentional).

Or.....ummmm.....that little place called Mexico? Oh no - we never messed with their politics, or did anything at all to precipitate numerous revolutions and counter revolutions. Naturally it makes perfect sense that with their vast reserves of coal, oil, natural gas, uranium,gold, copper, silver, bauxite, tin, that they should be a dirt poor nation for generation after generation. We could not possibly have any hand in this.

Of course we must erase from our memories and books the fact that Mexico had a civilization, and level of lifestyle and wealth prior to 1845 that was becoming on par with European nations.That Mexico had great Cathedrals, libraries, universities, water/sewar works......while the US by contrast at that point was a third rate nation with nothing to compare with Mexico.


92 posted on 12/12/2004 6:30:00 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux! St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!)
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To: Unam Sanctam

"It is too early to say whether or not the liberation of Iraq will be successful, but the signs are promising."


I am glad you have so nicely convinced yourself of the merits of modern warfare and the use of weak states to act out the psychotic ambitions of half-educated American leaders whatever their current popularity. The "liberation" of Iraq will only replace one faction with another but this time protected by a permanent force until it loses favour (as Saddam did). This notion of democracy is useless among the Arab nations. It is alien to their traditions and religion. And bribing or bombing them to win their hearts and minds does not deserve any success. America has nothing else to offer except lots of graves and the joyful cries from the unthinking masses back home fed on war games and overblown vanity.


151 posted on 12/13/2004 4:40:10 AM PST by Wessex
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