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To: Lexinom

Thanks for your comments which I think are good as well
as provocative. Perhaps the problem lies in your reference
to "observation" and perhaps my example is too oversimplified. There are many realities that cannot simply
be "observed" and quantified by simple empirical observation. The earth is believed to be about four and a
half billion years old. There are many things known to

be scientifically true that cannot have been observed, e.g.
the tectonic shift of the continents and many other
such geological phenomena. Einstein posited that the only
absolute in the universe is the speed of light and as that
speed is approached time diminishes and mass increases.
Obviously, this cannot be "observed" but it can be confirmed mathematically. You mentioned the "difference
between the fact of gravity and the fact of Darwinian
Natural Selection." I do see the difference but I think
that difference has to do with the matter of "observation"
as I sketched above. Of course, neither evolution nor
any other phenomenon which occurs over millenia is completly comprehended or explained to the fullest extent
possible. Electromagnetism is said to be one of the four
central forces of the universe - yet there is much we don't
know about it and more that we learn as time progresses.
This is why there is and must be "debate within the
scientific community." One of the points I made elsewhere
is that evolution has been verified by experiments with
such things viruses and certain bacterial life where time
ceases to impede "observation." I think one of the most frustrating things (to me) about a discussion of evolution
is how emotional, irrational, and nearly unhinged some
people become. If we all heard that some aspect of quantum
physics relating to quarks had been verified - it would
be met by these people with a big yawn. But assert that
evolution is true then LOOK OUT! Perhaps this still
unsettles certain religious beliefs. I accept evolution
and it is no threat whatsoever to my religious faith.
I'd like to hear back from you -- and congratulations
for an intelligent, rational response. It's much appreciated.


59 posted on 01/07/2005 12:40:17 PM PST by T.L.Sink (stopew)
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To: T.L.Sink
I'm a bit fatigued right now, but will attempt a response to some of your points.

Of course, neither evolution nor any other phenomenon which occurs over millenia is completly comprehended or explained to the fullest extent possible.

Right. It becomes a matter of faith, an extension of one's noetic structure through which he interprets observed facts. Einstein posited a theory that, again, may or may not be fact. The speed of light has been measured for about 300 years, and has been shown to slow down slightly. Of course, that could just be tolerance error in the methods employed for the tests (Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle), but the reduction was pretty consistent over the centuries, albeit small. The only point is that it too is a theory.

Reality is a black box. The more science advances, the more we come to grips with our own ignorance and smallness in the universe. Yet we are able to observe these things and draw conclusions. Reason! Requisite to reason is a set of univerally accepted transcendental laws, like the laws of logic, which point to an absolute reference point, something unchangeable and eternal.

There is something really special about man, something that separates us from the animals. True, we contain many of the same building blocks. We all need food and drink, light and air, work and rest. We respond favorably to those we find pleasant, whose company we enjoy. Pavlonian responses. But science reaches its limits when we speak of beauty, morality, dignity, and nobility - experiences animals cannot be said to know. No animal ever prayed. Knowledge crosses the rubicon from science to philosophy, which is the outer sphere containing the truths on which scientific endeavor depends.

To your credit, you've indicated you make that distinction. I'm contending, though, that the implications of evolution by natural causes stand in opposition to the teachings of holy Scripture. It is not "In the beginning" to which I refer, but rather, "love your neighbor"; "pray for those that persecute you"; "do not resist an evil person"; "repay good for evil"; all of these teachings, pure and perfect, stand in irreconcileable contrast to the principle of survival of the fittest, taking advantage at the expense of another, and other Darwinian dogma that has given foundation to some of the bloodiest and most ruthless regimes in human history.

60 posted on 01/08/2005 12:49:55 AM PST by Lexinom (www.revotewa.com - Go DINO! www.illegitimategovernor.com)
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