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To: livius
What has happened is that we have simply come to accept the abuses and people no longer recognize them as such.

And chide us for not going along. Now anyone who is 'traditional' is the odd one, at least in many dioceses. And sadly it is often the people in authority, the 'ministers' of things who go out of their way to make non-conformists feel out of place. And the more out of line the changes, the worse the behavior.

I've heard people say that this is the springtime of Vatican II. That this NO mass is the best ever. There will be no going back. Yet, for all their urging to accept change, they themselves refuse to hear of any changes that deviate from their notion of what Catholic should be. I find it wearying to discuss it at our parish ministries meetings. What is always most outstanding to me is that these defenders of the NO, these people who want the changes want only those changes as defined by them. If you question what they are doing, they are openly abusive and insulting, reminiscent of arguing with liberal dems. This was a huge problem at our parish a decade or so ago when our 2 priests were openly schismatic. It still is a problem, but more people just go along now. We lost 20-30% of our population.

48 posted on 01/13/2005 5:28:43 AM PST by fortunecookie (My grandparents didn't flee communism so that I could live in Kerry's Kommune - and I won't have to.)
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To: fortunecookie
If you question what they are doing, they are openly abusive and insulting, reminiscent of arguing with liberal dems.

I bet you'd find that most of them ARE liberal Dems.

It's very discouraging - you note that you lost 20-30% of your population, but I bet nobody in charge at the parish really cares. How the supporters of the NO can boast about the "springtime" of the Church when parishioners are leaving in droves is one of the many things that puzzles me.

59 posted on 01/13/2005 6:24:36 AM PST by livius
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To: fortunecookie

"And sadly it is often the people in authority, the 'ministers' of things who go out of their way to make non-conformists feel out of place. And the more out of line the changes, the worse the behavior."

This should be a very clear signal that the Gramsciian "process" is proceeding quite well! It begins with hierarchial facilitators......and proceeds toward not the mere docile acceptance of the flock, but of forced accepted...........enforced by the lay leaders themselves.

The "process" has worked all too well!


87 posted on 01/14/2005 1:12:09 AM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux !)
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