Is the Bible from God or Men?

Truth Tract | Unknown | Perry B. Cotham

[Invincibly Ignorant]

You seem to speak of that with reverence.

Is that bad?

Why did you turn from following Jesus?

Never really turned from following his example of being a Torah observant Jew. I began to realize the anti-semetic nature of the NT. I turned from Trinitarianism and believing in the deification of a human being.

Did the Holy Spirit enter you life?

I suppose something is causing me to pursue God. ***The NT was alive for awhile until I caught a glimpse of its history.*** What part of it's history are you refering to?

[ladyinred]

I must respectfully disagree with you. I believe that every word in the Bible is God inspired. What you must keep in mind is that the Bible is dealing primarily with Israel especially with respect to the OT. (Hence the Babylon rule is Universal). There are some problems with the translations from the original to English. But nothing in there is by accident or human origin as far as I am concerned. JMO.

[dummyknocker]

in regards to your implying that the bible has error--the earth does rotate around the sun---HOWEVER--(1) put yourself back in that timeframe-It would appear to people that the sun stopped moving. (2)God is ALL-POWERFUL. If he can split the Red Sea--He can make the sun stop. In your statement you are forgetting he can do ANYTHING.

[tabsternager]

The Bible is clearly not, nor was it ever intended to be, a science book. God used the writers of the Bible to speak to man in ways that man could understand. It's all about faith.

[dummyknocker]

***Sorry, the Bible is not self-authenticating. First, who wrote the Gospels??? No where in the Gospels do we have an author's name or claim on who actually wrote them. We have tradition (yep, tradition) telling us who wrote them.

What is the deal? Please read the whole Bible--where it says-"I, Paul, end this letter now in my own handwriting. All my letters have this to show they are from me. This is the way I write. The Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all." 2 Thessalonians 3:17-18.
There are many of these types of places in the Gospels that we have an author's name.--also look at 1 Timothy 1:1---From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus, by the command of God our Savior and Christ Jesus our hope.---

That is direct for the Bible, Itself--New American Version.--Question that one!

[BibChr]

"If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment" (1 Corinthians 14:37 [Paul]).

Dan
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[PetroniusMaximus]

***Is that bad?***

No, not at all. I just puzzles me that you would speak so seriously of your conversion and then speak of dismissing it with some ease.

***Never really turned from following his example of being a Torah observant Jew.***

Think about this, he never instructed us to follow his example - he instructed us to follow him. Sheep do not follow the "example" of the shepherd - they follow the shepherd.


***anti-semetic nature of the NT***

And the Torah isn't anti-semitic??? (Num. 14 1-10)

The fact of the matter is that the entire Bible is not anti-semitic, but rather anti-human! God can not and will never be pleased with unregenerate man. Man's natural end is hell. The Bible is witness to this. Do you think the NT pretends only the Jews were evil enough to slay the Christ??? No!!! The Romans, Parthians, Greeks and even the Americans would have done the same if they had the chance. The cry of the heart of unregenerate man when confronted with the righteous and holy God is "we will not have this man to rule over us!".



****I suppose something is causing me to pursue God.****

But this is the critical thing.

The enterance of the Holy Spirit into the life of the believer is what makes all the difference. It is what make all things new. The Spirit brings the new life. It troubles me that you can not speak more precisely of your experience of the Spirit.

How did the Spirit change your life when you were born again?

[jo kus]

You would be better served by reading my entire post. There, I said that PARTS of the NT COULD POSSIBLY pass what we today could declare as being self authenticating. However, MOST of the NT is not. Who are the authors of the Gospels??? What about the other Pastorals, Hebrews? And Peter? Acts? And perhaps there are books that should have been put in there? Why 2 John or Philemon, and not Clement or the Didache?

I already gave you numerous quotes from the NT that there WAS CONCERN about forgery. Your verse merely AMPLIFIES that concern, if Paul found it necessary to mention that it was "signed" by him.

Another thing you overlooked is the FACT that WE HAVE NO ORIGINALS! Perhaps some pious person wrote the whole thing 100 years after Paul died (if it weren't for the testimony of the Church). I could just as easily write a verse similar to 2 Thess 3:17-18! You prove nothing...

All of these questions defeat your concept of the idea that the ENTIRE NT is self-authenticating. Perhaps a few of the books are. But the whole 27 books? That is wishful thinking. If it weren't for the Church, we would not have the NT at all as a reliable witness. Again, I quote St. Augustine: "If it weren't for the Catholic Church, I would not believe Scripture". Think on that. Even Luther admitted as much. There is no arguing the role the Church played/plays in bringing us the Scripture and witnessing to its special role.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

***Is that bad?*** No, not at all. I just puzzles me that you would speak so seriously of your conversion and then speak of dismissing it with some ease.

It puzzles me why you would say I was dismissing my conversion. A Teshuva is very important to me.

Think about this, he never instructed us to follow his example - he instructed us to follow him. Sheep do not follow the "example" of the shepherd - they follow the shepherd.

Ok I thought about it. Doesn't work. He was all about Torah (law) never passing away. Not one jot nor tittle.

And the Torah isn't anti-semitic??? (Num. 14 1-10)

I can't believe you're serious. And the north and south in the US fought because they were anti-american. lol.

The fact of the matter is that the entire Bible is not anti-semitic, but rather anti-human! God can not and will never be pleased with unregenerate man. Man's natural end is hell. The Bible is witness to this. Do you think the NT pretends only the Jews were evil enough to slay the Christ??? No!!! The Romans, Parthians, Greeks and even the Americans would have done the same if they had the chance. The cry of the heart of unregenerate man when confronted with the righteous and holy God is "we will not have this man to rule over us!".

Yes I believe writers of the NT thought only Jews were evil enough. For example: "Our Blood be on us and our children". Numberous examples in the NT. Spare me the gnostic god-man ideas. Peace to you. ****I suppose something is causing me to pursue God.**** But this is the critical thing. The enterance of the Holy Spirit into the life of the believer is what makes all the difference. It is what make all things new. The Spirit brings the new life. It troubles me that you can not speak more precisely of your experience of the Spirit. How did the Spirit change your life when you were born again?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Ok I thought about it. Doesn't work. He was all about Torah (law) never passing away. Not one jot nor tittle.***

He did indeed honor the law - but he also taught that we must surpass the Law to enter the Kingdom. “You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Jesus he was not simply a preacher of Torah - but of himself as promised Messiah and the one to bring the long-awaited promises of the Torah to fulfillment. Remember he also said...

"I am the way..." and "Without me you can do nothing..."

Besides, if the Torah, the first covenant, was perfect, then why would God have promised another??? (Jer. 31: 31-33)



***I can't believe you're serious. ***

Yes I am. To be more clear, the God of the Bible is anti-sin. If Israel, at any point in time, is pro-sin then God is anti-Israel. When they are pro-righteousness then God is pro-Israel. God has no favorites that He allows to get away with sin.

God, threatening to wipe out all of Israel (save Moses, Aaron etc.) isn't exactly "pro-semetic" in modern parlance.



If you wouldn't mind, I really wish you would answer this question... How did the Spirit change your life when you were born again?

[Invincibly Ignorant]

If you wouldn't mind, I really wish you would answer this question... How did the Spirit change your life when you were born again?

Already answered it. It turned out to be my teshuva. Which ultimately led me in the pursuit of God and Torah. As I mentioned before the NT does encourage correct behavior despite its major flaw of blatant anti-semitism. You can quote NT to me all ya want but I dont' happen to find it inspired.