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To: Kolokotronis; Pyro7480
"Over the top" was perhaps too strong phrase. My point was that the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament has the effect of cutting off the consecrated gifts from the act of receiving communion. We Orthodox certainly treat the Body and Blood of Christ with great care and veneration. Just today, a small amount of communion fell from the spoon as it was being put into the mouth of an elderly parishioner, and it fell on the communion cloth. The priest immediately raised the cloth to his lips and consumed it, even though it had probably been on the lips of the parishioner.

But all of the acts of veneration take place in the context of the Liturgy or of giving Communion. Your account of certain Greeks (I assume on Corfu?) using a monstrance and having processions is the first I have heard. It certainly reflects a correct theology of the Real Presence in a sense, but I would also point out that the Orthodox Church has never defined exactly what Real Presence means. Everything we know is contained in the Liturgy and the pre- and post-communion prayers, and all of this is in the context of Communion, and I suspect that this is why the Orthodox Church hasn't developed a similar veneration that is cut off from the Liturgy and receiving of communion.

From what I have seen, the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament has largely fallen by the wayside in current Catholic piety -- probably by design. I don't think that this means that the Catholic church no longer believes in Real Presence, but rather that the shift has taken place to the more Orthodox position that the Body and Blood of Christ are to be received, not put in a box or monstrance and adored. My point was that as an Orthodox Christian I agree with that aspect of post Vat II changes, but that I think in the process of making this shift, the trend seems to have gone toward downright impiety in many cases. A fellow-FReeper told me of being at one of the late Pope's "stadium Masses," and seeing hosts pieces of hosts on the ground, and having "extraordinary Eucharistic ministers" gather up the left-over hosts into porous burlap bags, and seeing crumbs sifting out through the holes.

This sort of thing simply wouldn't have happened in the days of widespread veneration of the Blessed Sacrament, to be sure. But this sort of thing doesn't happen in Orthodox Churches at all, either, and we don't have a similar Adoration. It is possible to have a great veneration and reverence toward the consecrated gifts *and* have these gifts really only be used and venerated in the context of receiving communion. I hope that makes what I was trying to say more clear.

53 posted on 04/17/2005 4:35:45 PM PDT by Agrarian
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To: Agrarian; Pyro7480

"But all of the acts of veneration take place in the context of the Liturgy or of giving Communion. Your account of certain Greeks (I assume on Corfu?) using a monstrance and having processions is the first I have heard."

Actually, I am aware of it happening both on Santorini and Andros, but the hierarchs were in the procession, the Roman Catholic hierarch or priest carried the monstrance.

"...I think in the process of making this shift, the trend seems to have gone toward downright impiety in many cases. A fellow-FReeper told me of being at one of the late Pope's "stadium Masses," and seeing hosts pieces of hosts on the ground, and having "extraordinary Eucharistic ministers" gather up the left-over hosts into porous burlap bags, and seeing crumbs sifting out through the holes."

I have seen something similar at an NO Mass I attended about 2 years ago. An old lady was walking back to her seat nibbling on the host and pieces were falling all over the floor. No one did anything. Other people saw this and did nothing. But I can't see how the devotion of Adoration resulted in this...quite the opposite in fact as I detect a sort of laissez faire attitude about the Eucharist among the Roman faithful which is different from what I observed in my father and the other Irish members of the family when I was a kid.


55 posted on 04/17/2005 5:03:31 PM PDT by Kolokotronis ("Set a guard over my mouth, O Lord; keep watch over the door of my lips!" (Psalm 141:3))
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To: Agrarian
Just today, a small amount of communion fell from the spoon as it was being put into the mouth of an elderly parishioner, and it fell on the communion cloth. The priest immediately raised the cloth to his lips and consumed it, even though it had probably been on the lips of the parishioner.

This story will horrify you: The priest for whom I served as deacon for a time was an alcoholic, and never consumed the "leftover" Eucharist. One of the altar guild ladies was horrified by this and asked him why he threw the Eucharistic bread, Jesus' body, away. He replied, "Jesus got Himself into it, He'll get Himself back out."

60 posted on 04/17/2005 5:22:42 PM PDT by pharmamom (Lost: One Really Great Tagline. If found, please return to its owner.)
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