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To: murphE

What is most puzzling to me in this Schievo case, is indeed the discrepancy of her swallowing capabilities.
Medical interventions that can be withheld as a result of a previously made advanced directive, only involve invasive things, and are normally clarified as "iv fluids; tube feeds, ventilator support" etc.
Now what bothers me the most are the reports from the nurses is that she made efforts to drink, but that offering it to her was forbidden. I'm assuming at some point someone decided via swallow eval that she was a high aspiration risk, but I've never heard that definitively. But still this is a askill that can be rehabed, and can certainly improve with training over time.
If thats not the case (abnormal prohibitive swallow eval), then how, legally, can someone be forbidden from offering po fluids? IF one argues that it was her desire to die, then doesnt her effort to drink supercede her previous decision?
The lack of info about her ability / inabilty to drink, even if just sips, to me is the missing data I need to make a conclusion about this case. If she really could make a drinking effort, and was denied this, and denied swallowing rehab, I believe that to be clearly criminal, regardless of what any implied advanced directive may have said.


8 posted on 04/29/2005 12:12:05 AM PDT by swingdoc
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To: cpforlife.org

ping


9 posted on 04/29/2005 6:15:54 AM PDT by murphE (The crown of victory is promised only to those who engage in the struggle. St. Augustine)
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To: swingdoc

Having experienced a family member unable to safely take fluids by mouth (per os), this topic is not unfamiliar to me. My father was such a case. While he was designated npo (nisi per os) by the doctors, and we had to approve that order due to the risk of pneumonia, we nonetheless had to grapple with the question of discomfort. The mouth dries out and the patient greatly desires to drink. Some moist swabbing is a remedy, but it cannot take the place of a drink. At some point you have to decide if keeping the patient "safe" is better or worse than making him comfortable. Giving a little spoonful of coffee, for example, might not be a good thing for physical health, but when it is extremely appreciated by the patient, perhaps it is worthwhile. When the patient is in decline, and his days may be numbered short, how could a moment of great relief be a bad thing? The nurse doesn't have to know.

In Terri's case, the guard, the nurse, and the "husband" wouldn't have to know. Much more difficult. And it seems that the conspicuously deliberate prohibitions surrounding her were criminal acts. There were people who wanted to help but could not. And those who the court allowed to control her environment were bent on her death. I heard one report that said that only "dry swabbing" was allowed. That is an act of war. It's probably a good thing for me I was not there, because I would have made some trouble. I will not presume to pass judgment on those who were there and tried to help her, but we ought to remember that "trying to work in the system" only ended up with Terri slowly dying of unrelieved and torturous thirst. Perhaps a little confrontation would have done some good. It might have given other protestors some courage, too. The corrupt legal system has now made quite a name for itself, it seems to me. We no longer are inexperienced.

Remember Terri in your prayers.


14 posted on 04/29/2005 11:34:16 AM PDT by donbosco74 (Sancte Padre Pio, ora pro nobis, nunc et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.)
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To: swingdoc
"IF one argues that it was her desire to die, then doesnt her effort to drink supercede her previous decision?"

One would think what one wishes today should supercede past directives. Apparently, in many of these situations THAT is not the case. Frightening to say the least.

23 posted on 04/29/2005 7:06:18 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Evil succeeds when good men don't do enough!!!!)
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To: swingdoc
Terri received rehab therapy during the 1990 to 1993 period. During that period she is seen in videos not only swallowing but licking her lips with purpose from side to side ... something a PVS patient cannot do. As soon as the lawsuit monies came into her then husband's control, the husband stopped ALL therapy and even threatened anyone found trying to help Terri. The husband (whom Greer considered a fit guardian for Terri) forced neglect upon Terri for the next decade plus of her life, even disallowing antibiotics when she had an infection. Clearly, her then husband was a gross abuser of his wife (via forced, pernicious neglect of her needs and ignoring the monies awarded for her therapy and care for the next 51 years--the court-determined span for the award). The results of such forced neglect caused Terri to be unable to swallow food or liquid, yet she swallowed her own saliva without aspirating, every day.

You raised a pertinent question regarding Terri's swallowing abilities, so I thought I would fill you in on how the guardian's denial of her basic therapy and care contributed strongly to her declined state, declined from the gains seen in the 1993 videos.

36 posted on 04/29/2005 10:18:20 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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