Posted on 05/11/2005 10:04:08 AM PDT by NYer
So what part does the HM play in salvation?
I don't really like the word so I spell it wrong on purpose. But thanks anyway.
I often make a rather complex analogy of heaven to a concert. It's all based on scripture and the comparisons are amazing. I love concerts so I really like the analogy.
She is the mother of us all.
Come now. Much like "H"er "A"ssumption and "H"er "Immaculate Conception," the fact that "S"he is responsible for salvation is derived through simple HUMAN logic. No doubt many nights' sleep were lost in coming up with that stuff.
As is their Mary, but is that all she did. Did she create part of the universe. Did she have anything to do with Jesus? We are born of spirit and of water(flesh) so which part does she do?
Some of us will be writing music, others will be playing it and people like you will be listening.
Don't you understand the concept of mother? Heavenly mother is the mother of us all.
Do you not get the spiritual vs physical difference, are you giving her both of them? So when we are born again, which is to say born spiritually, what part does she do, give birth to the spirit of God that indwells us. I feel so dirty just saying that.
You were and still are. Deliberately so.
Well, it's like this: in the pre-mortal existence we have a Father and a Mother. Simple, not dirty at all. When we return to be with Heavenly Father, she most certainly will be there.
***don't you "let" her be in your nativity scene at your church and home? but after Christmas you have no use for her***
To honor Mary best is not by putting a figure of her in a nativity but, as Jesus commanded, by doing the will of the Father in Heaven.
*** Christ GAVE HER TO MANKIND FROM THE CROSS***
I have a problem with this line of reasoning. Christ gave her specifically to John to take care of. Why do you suppose this is some universal declaration of Mary's "adoption" of the church and not simply a heart-rending example of Jesus' self-forgetful, filial love in making sure his mother was taken care of with his very dying words?
(It is, however, an argument in favor of Jesus being Mary's only child.)
Hello again.
"Just because Mary gave birth to Jesus does not make her accountable for the world's salvation, not even indirectly."
If that is true, then why did God decide to save us in this fashion? Are you saying that God had to become a man and die on the cross? The fact that He chose this way of salvation makes all the difference. If you read the Early Church Fathers, even to Justin the Martyr and Irenaeus, (150-180 AD) you will find this idea of Mary is already promiment enough in the Church's liturgy for them to comment on it.
Rather than focusing on what is the minimum that God is "required" to do to save us, consider God's plan of salvation was prompted by love, not requirement. With Love as a guide, the Blessed Virgin is a gift from God to us. Thus, the Church for 2000 years have voiced their love for her.
Devotion does not equal worship.
The language of love is not the same as the language of theology. If you are married, you might sympathize with that - saying you love your wife more than "anything" or "life itself", etc. Are these literal? Same with Mary.
Hope this helps.
Regards
"Did she have anything to do with Jesus?"
Your joking, right? I guess you don't believe in the first two chapters of Luke in the New Testament...
Regards
"I could tell you stories about our local Catholic Church that would make your hair curl, but it's nothing you don't already know. I left."
That's too bad that it appears you made the decision to leave Christ's Church based on your opinions of some of the members of the Church. Have you have now found perfection? No more weeds in the wheatfield where you worship at? What would you have done 2000 years ago when Jesus selected Judas as an Apostle? Or when He talked about the Eucharist in John 6?
Something to think about.
Regards
He was asking about the Mormon "Heavenly Mother" (not Mary).
My soul magnifies the Lord
This is a statement of fact, this is something that her soul is doing it is not something she wishes her soul to do.
My soul, praise the Lord, and all that is within me, praise His holy name.
The comma after the word soul is indicative of David's prayer to the Lord for His Strength to better help David praise God; it is a request, it is not a description of the state of his soul.
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