Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Opting for Chunky rather than Smooth/n/creamy? Untangling the papacy from the patriarchy? Opening doors, windows and gates to Orthodox brethren? More and bigger hats for regional patriarchates, smaller hat for Pope? (And let's not forget big thumpin' croziers to keep the wolves away...)

There's plenty of links off of this that are even more interesting. I think it has huge implications. What say ye, Men of the West? (What say ye, Men of the East? Women? North? South? Anyone?)

1 posted on 05/14/2005 9:29:14 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: Mrs. Don-o; don-o; Agrarian; Campion; Salvation
Oops, the last 3 paragraphs of the excerpted article are supposed to be in italics, indicating that it's all a direct quote from Ratzinger/Benedict. Which makes it even more ... interesting.
2 posted on 05/14/2005 9:35:10 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (First will be last. Last will be first. Details at 11.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

If His Holiness wants to re-re model after the East, what will the role of the Laity be?

I think the Laity plays a pretty big role in the autocephalous model, that's how the big dogs are kept in check, I believe. And the reason the Orthodox are successful is because the Laity is high-claiber in that they willingly embrace and protect Tradition.

How will that ever be the case (at least in the forseeable future) for the RC Laity?


3 posted on 05/14/2005 9:36:18 AM PDT by AlbionGirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

To talk about things as a theologian, theorizing and considering options, is often a different reality than actually having the job and running things. It will be interesting to see how his speculations as theologian are deemed doable by him now that he has the job!


4 posted on 05/14/2005 9:37:53 AM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o; Kolokotronis; BlackElk
but only being inserted into a unity of faith and communio

That word, 'communio,' will be a focus of this Papacy.

8 posted on 05/14/2005 10:03:53 AM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, Tomas Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

A start would be to segregate them out into:

Latin (Spanish/French/Portugese/Italian areas)
Africa
English
Germanic
Slavic/Hungarian
Asian


10 posted on 05/14/2005 10:22:03 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Cardinal Ratzinger wrote Primat und Episkopat in 1969.

Perhaps he has changed his thinking since then.


11 posted on 05/14/2005 10:33:45 AM PDT by sockmonkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Professional Engineer

ping


12 posted on 05/14/2005 10:37:40 AM PDT by Peanut Gallery
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o
That was the original model of the church in the NT, but how practical is it today?

The Orthodox have that structure, and they bicker back and forth and have different rules depending on which patriarchy you would find yourself in.

Can't you just see this? It would make things much worse for catholics. One diocese would decide this, another that, which is already the case even worse than before.

There is so much instability right now. It would be a grand concession to the Orthodox, but it could throw catholicism around the world into total chaos.

The only thing that is holding the church together, for better or for worse, doctrinally is Rome, and only Rome has been able to have any affect on some of the liturgical abuses and little effect on some of the other problems as things stand now.

If all the bishops get together regularly and agree to the letter, I would be ok with it. That ain't likely to happen.

I wouldn't put it past some bishops to allow kool aid and dog biscuits.

13 posted on 05/14/2005 10:50:44 AM PDT by Aliska
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

The optimum outcome: We become like the Orthodox

The likely outcome: We become like the Anglican Communion.


17 posted on 05/14/2005 11:46:17 AM PDT by NeoCaveman (you can be whoever you want to be on the Internet)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

The Western Hemisphere could become the Patriarchy of the (West) Indies with the primatial see being at Guadalupe in Mexico where Our Lady appeared to Juan Diego!


25 posted on 05/14/2005 2:15:10 PM PDT by Macoraba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

With due regard to the above cautions about the date of Ratzinger's comments and the fact that he made them as a private theologian and not as the Pope, I am not so sure that it is beyond the pale. In fact, it already exists in the distinction between the Latin rite and the Eastern rites in communion with Rome. What Ratzinger appeared to be suggesting is that the primacy would pertain to doctrine and magisterium, the patriarchies to matters of jurisdiction and discipline (canon law, liturgy, etc.). If that is the case it would simply be expanding on a model which already exists. Even more, did it not exist for centuries before the Great Schism between East and West? I am no historian, but that is my general impression. Finally, the union of primacy and patriarchy might have seemed more appropriate when the Western church was primarily European, and no doubt it was reinforced in response to the divisive and nationalistic character of the Protestant Reformation. But now that Catholicism has become a world religion and serious ecumenical efforts are afoot, perhaps the time for a newer model has come. I am sure it would be more attractive not only to the Orthodox but also to the more conservative part of the Anglican communion.


33 posted on 05/15/2005 11:31:36 AM PDT by Bobokovo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: Mrs. Don-o

Opening more doors, through which Satan will creep.

Our local, very conservative Bishop Sheridan can't even keep his North county Priests in line. We have 2 of the most liberal Parish's I've ever seen.
No Eternal Light or presence of the Eucharist in the "Worship Center".
No kneelers.
Deny the authority of the local Bishop.
Levened bread for the Eucharist.
etc....


40 posted on 05/16/2005 5:39:38 AM PDT by G Larry (Promote Conservative Judges NOW!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson