Posted on 05/25/2005 10:35:49 PM PDT by sinkspur
THE leader of Scotland's Catholics has risked reigniting a row over married priests by predicting the Vatican will eventually relent and allow the practice.
Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, said the success of married deacons in the church means the change is likely.
The church leader has upset traditional Catholics in the past with his views on celibacy, homosexuality and the priesthood.
His latest comments were made in an interview with the Catholic Times, which will be published on Sunday,
Asked if he believed married priests will become a reality, he said: "Having seen something of the apostolate of married deacons, I can foresee the day when there will be married priests."
The Cardinal has angered conservative Catholics in the past with his acceptance of gay priests, as long as they remained celibate.
However, since being elevated to the College of Cardinals he has espoused views more in line with Vatican teachings. Cardinal O'Brien's latest comments drew criticism from the right-wing Catholic Truth movement.
A spokesman for the group said: "He is trying to say that he is not necessarily personally in favour of this but we can debate it. It's a sleekit way of trying to have his cake and eat it."
However, a poll of 80 Catholic priests in Scotland conducted only last month suggested 40 per cent believed they should be allowed to marry, but the issue remains thorny to many conservative Catholics.
Cardinal O'Brien gained a reputation as a liberal after he said in 2002, before he became a cardinal, that he saw no end to theological argument against celibacy within the priesthood.
A day later he issued a joint statement with Mario Conti, the archbishop of Glasgow, in which the pair said: "While no-one would suggest clerical celibacy is an unchangeable discipline, we believe it has an enormous value."
The following year he risked angering conservatives again when he broached the subject of married priests.
He said in a thanksgiving mass that the church should have "at every level" a discussion about clerical celibacy.
He said the argument for married priests was supported by the case of married Anglican priests who have converted to Catholicism and been allowed to continue their ministries.
However, at the ecclesiastical senate in Rome in October 2003, he made a statement at the end of the Nicene Creed in which he affirmed support of the church's teachings on celibacy, contraception and homosexuality.
It was claimed at the time, but denied, that the added words were said under pressure from the Vatican.
Since then the Cardinal has been careful not to speak out on any of the issues that caused so much controversy.
A spokesman for the Church said today that the Cardinal's comments were not incompatible with his profession of faith in 2003.
He said: "It is a neutral comment on the issue, it is neither a ringing endorsement of the concept, neither is it an outright denunciation."
That thing that is seriously wrong is the Superforce, which is what it is sometimes called. It is not just in the Vatican but is in chanceries and religious orders. Whatever its ultimate agenda it hates Our Lord in the Eucharist and hates Our Lady and serves the demon. It pays lipservice to Vatican directives while working in the opposite direction. ...
I'm presuming that you are not Scottish, or have little direct experience of what's really going on in the Church there. Otherwise, I doubt that you would have afforded your vote of confidence above to the same Conti who (along with O'Brien) is a leading contender for the job of chief-wreckovator there.
Are we talking about the same Conti who empties Catholic tabernacles to clear the way for Buddhist paraphernalia to be used in one of his ecumania services? The reference, if you need it, is St Patricks parish in the Anderston district of the city.
And, believe me, it gets worse than that.
Ah, but that's enough to get you deaconed around here. And you know what the next step from there is, don't you? ;-)
No, love, not Scottish. But I was acquainted with Archbishop Conti when he was Bishop in Aberdeen. But the late Cardinal Winning was steering the Scottish Catholic ship at the time and working tirelessly on pro-life issues. And he exerted an influence on the Church that kept some horrors away for a season.</p>
Heh heh heh.
That he did, God rest his soul. Socially, Cardinal Winning was very liberal but he was Catholic all the way through.
1Tim 4:3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
Won't happen, Sinkie. Get over it.
It was claimed at the time, but denied, that the added words were said under pressure from the Vatican.
A spokesman for the Church said today that the Cardinal's comments were not incompatible with his profession of faith in 2003.
Kick him out. He has obviously violated the oath the Vatican made him take prior to being elevated (which begs the question, Why in the world did Rome elevate a heretic in the first place?!?):
Article: Profession of Faith taken by Cardinal Designate Keith Patrick O'Brien
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2003
Following a number of requests please find below the full text of the Profession of Faith taken by Cardinal Designate Keith Patrick O'Brien on Tuesday 7th October 2003 at St. Mary's Cathedral, Edinburgh in the presence of the Metropolitan Cathedral chapter on the occassion of the installation of the Reverend John Agnew, to the cathedral chapter.
" 1. Recitation of Creed by Cardinal Designate O'Brien and Canon Elect Agnew.
I, Keith Patrick O'Brien/John Agnew, with firm faith, believe and profess all and Everything contained in the Creed. I believe is One God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of Heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe is One Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God. Eternally begotten of the Father. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, Begotten, not made; of one Being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation He came down from Heaven: By the power of the Holy Spirit he became Incarnate from the Virgin Mary and was made Man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate: He suffered death and was buried. On the third day, He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the Right Hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, And his Kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life,
Who proceeds from the Father and Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified;
He has spoken through the Prophets.
I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the Resurrection of the dead,
and life of the world to come. Amen.
2. Further Profession of Faith of Cardinal Designate Keith Patrick O'Brien, Archbishop of St Andrews and Edinburgh, made in St Mary's Cathedral Edinburgh on Tuesday 7th October 2003.
Furthermore, I having been called to be Cardinal by pope John Paul II, state that I firmly hold and maintain all and everything taught by the Holy Catholic Church concerning faith and morals, whether solemnly defined or asserted as part of her ordinary Magisterium, especially those doctrines touching the mystery of the Church as the Body of Christ, the Sacraments, the sacrifice of the Mass and the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.
I further state that I accept and intend to defend the law on ecclesiastical celibacy as it is proposed by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church; I accept and promise to defend the ecclesiastical teaching about the immorality of the homosexual act; I accept and promise to promulgate always and everywhere what the Church's Magisterium teaches on contraception. So help me God and these Holy Scriptures which I touch with my hand.
I dunno.
Didn't the Catholic church once allow priests to marry?
I think the change occurred about 1100-1200 AD.
Does anyone know if this is correct or not?
Not sure. Someone will more info than I can post that. I do know that if someone is well aware of the rules before joining an institution they should be mindful of it. What part of celibacy don't these priests understand?
Thanks for the verse that takes on the Gnostic heretics. Of course it doesn't apply to anything on this thread, but random Bible verses are always nice.
It is. The rule was changed because priests at the time were immensely powerful and wealthy figures, and the Church didn't like the idea that their property would pass on to their sons rather than reverting to Church ownership upon their death. Since that isn't a problem today, changing the celibacy rule made by men for the profit of men and allowing priests to marry would be positive, 100% consistent with the Church's mission, and would help dilute the effect of pedophiles who currently seek out the priesthood in inordinate numbers.
I think that's why the bible has so little impact in debating RC's. Why would a verse about forbidding people to marry have anything to do on a thread about the RCC forbidding those who would minister to marry?
LOL!
The Church formally adopted the celibacy requirement in 1123 at the First Lateran Council - because married priests were involved in so many sex scandals.
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