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To: kosta50; Agrarian; MarMema
Saints in the early Church were only martyrs.

St. John was not a martyr.

To the best of my knowledge none of the 2nd and 3rd century Fathers called her a Saint, nor did any one of them mention her assumption.

As I noted in #50, "At the end of [the third] century, Patriarch Theonas of Alexandria built the first real church for local Christians (who prior to that time were accustomed to assemble in homes and cemeteries) and called it the Church of St Mary Virgin and Mother of God".

Jesus Himself never called her His "Mother" but simply a "woman."

"After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother." (St. John 19.27)

The Symbol of Faith calls Mary Theotokos. The words chosen are not accidental, because -- although the implication of motherhood is there -- the Fathers wisely realized that eternal God does not have a mother, but that the pristine vessel of Mary's womb served to Incarnate God as man. So, she was wisely named the "Bearer of God" -- and not the Mother of God, as the Latins translate.

The Slavs also so translate, saying "Mater Boha" for "Mother of God" and "Bohorodytsa" for "Theotokos". Aren't there also instances of the words "Mater Theou" in the Greek Liturgy? The Hymn to the Theotokos in the Liturgy reads: "It is truly meet to bless you, O Theotokos. Ever blessed, and most pure, and the Mother of our God." Its unclear what sort of point you are trying to draw out of this meaningless distinction except perhaps some sly Nestorianism.

In any case, we do have a functionally equivalent translation we also use - Deipara.

74 posted on 06/13/2005 7:33:40 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
St. John was not a martyr

No he wasn't. When was he made into a saint? What are the earliest references to him as a saint? In fact what is the earliest usage of the term?

91 posted on 06/13/2005 2:36:18 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother

Sure, our spiritual mother, but He did not say my mother.

95 posted on 06/13/2005 2:55:38 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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