Problems of Ecumenical Evangelism : Is Billy Graham Right or Wrong?

Middletown Bible Church ^ | 06/24/05 | Middletown Bible Church

[jkl1122]

"It is by faith and faith alone that we are saved"

I don't disagree that faith is important to salvation. However, your statement that I have listed above is not Biblical. Please offer Scriptural support for this statement.

[P-Marlowe]

Please offer Scriptural support for this statement.

How many verses will it take to satisfy you?

[jkl1122]

Just one will do, but the problem is that the Bible doesn't teach that faith alone saves.

Must one repent of their sins to be saved? Must one confess Christ to be saved? If you answer yes to either of those questions, or even one of them, then faith alone does not save.

[P-Marlowe]

Just one will do, but....

I suspect you will not accept just one, so I'll pass on giving it to you. Suffice it to say that there is no record of Abraham doing anything other than believing God and that was counted unto him as righteousness. No confession, no baptism, no nothing. Just believing. John 3:16. Not by works.

[jkl1122]

Abraham was not under the New Covenant, so confession and baptism were not required for his salvation.

I said I will accept one verse and that is what I meant. All I was saying is that I have not yet found the verse that teaches faith alone saves without contradicting other passages of Scripture. If you have found that one, please show it to me.

[P-Marlowe]

Abraham was not under the New Covenant, so confession and baptism were not required for his salvation.

So salvation through faith alone by grace alone through Christ alone is the OLD Covenant?

Then what is the Gospel?

[jkl1122]

How can something be through faith alone, and also by grace alone, and also through Christ alone? That is impossible. You have listed 3 things through which we receive salvation, which are all true, and yet you claim they are each the only thing that is needed by attaching the word "alone".

I totally agree that we receive salvation by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8). I also agree that it is only because Christ died, was buried, and rose on the third day that we have the opportunity to become a child of God. However, our acceptance doesn't end with simply believing that to be true. We must also repent of our sins, confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and be baptized for the remission of our sins.

[P-Marlowe]

It is by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone).

Sorry about that.

[jkl1122]

You are still inserting the word "alone" which is nowhere in the text. It is not even implied. The faith that is taught in the Bible is an obedient faith. Please answer this question. Must one confess Christ in order to be saved?

[jer33 3]

aphesis (strongs # 859) Remission of sins:

1. release from bondage or imprisonment

2. Forgiveness or pardon of sins (letting go of them as if they have never been committed) forgiveness, deliverance, liberty

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Notice this does not say baptism

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

[P-Marlowe]

Must one confess Christ in order to be saved?

Confession of Christ is evidence of faith. Faith is the belief which brings about the confession. By the time you move your lips, you are saved, for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

[P-Marlowe]

Are we having a deja vu moment or am I just having a senior moment?

[jer33 3]

Indeed it is flash in the past. I hope you are having a great day. I enjoyed the Matthew lesson.

[jer33 3]

Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[jkl1122]

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

Notice that this verse does say baptism. So we have verses that say belief is necessary for the remission of sins. We have verses that say the blood of Christ is necessary for the remission of sins. And we have verses, including Acts 22:16, that say that baptism is necessary for the remission of sins. Therefore, all of these things must be necessary for salvation.

You want to remove baptism from the requirements for remission of sins, but I could just as easily remove belief. Would you agree to that? Or what about if I remove Christ's shedding of His blood? Since the Word of God teaches that each of these things is for the remission of sins, all 3 are necessary for our sins to be removed.

[jkl1122]

Then please explain what is meant by Romans 10:10

for with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

[jer33 3]

Several times we have discussed Acts 2:38. We looked at the original Greek and cited several translations. Each time it comes to the point of a preposition. Taking the entire Word of God into account to position yourself to say that baptism is a condition or requirement for salvation would cancel out God's free gift or grace.

Shall we set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes from our own good works or self-righteousness, then Christ dies in vain.

[jkl1122]

Nothing I have ever said cancels out God's grace or the free gift of salvation. That is your opinion, but it is not based in Scripture.

Acts 22:16 teaches that baptism washes away sin. Do you agree or disagree with that? If you disagree, please tell me what it does teach.

[P-Marlowe]

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:9-10)

Hmmmmm. Nothing in there about baptism. Nothing in there about Sabbaths. Nothing in there about anything other than believing in your heart and cofessing (or acknowledging) with your mouth and then you SHALL be saved.

But since you only speak what comes out of your heart, the movement of your lips is not what saves you, but it is evidence that you have been saved. In both verses it is belief which is the trigger for salvation. Confession is the evidence that the trigger has been pulled.

[jkl1122]

I never said it mentioned baptism. I am only talking about confession in this verse. The verse clearly teaches that confession comes before salvation. You claim otherwise.