Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: TaxachusettsMan
ROCOR may represent a hostile faction of Orthodoxy, but they are Orthodox in their theology, just as the so-called Old Believers are. As one Roman Catholic on this forum aptly observed of St. Peter -- he was infallible (in his teaching) but not impeccable (in his conduct), the same may be true of any other member of the Church, icluding the Popes.

But that's exactly what this article is about: it tries to show that what makes a Church are not individuals; that our loyalty is not to a person or to a seat or throne of authorty, but to Christ. The Church administration is a necessity and has nothing to do with its theology.

If for one moment you realize that the fullness of God can be experienced in every church, no matter how big or how small, the whole concept of central authority and the juridical, corporate concept of the Church becomes meaningless. And with it, the whole idea of one bishop's supremacy over others, even a 'ruler' of the Church.

Since Vatican II, the 'imperial' Papacy has been redefined by one man whose style and personality defined the Papacy for the last 40 or so years, John Paul II. Most Catholics of today do not even remember the pre-Vatican II Mass, the three-step elevated altar against the wall, facing the East, and the priest symbolically leading the flock towards God, with his back turned to the congregation and facing the icons of the Lord and the blessed Saints. But, the Church did it in this manner for centuries, and the Popes were anything but JPII-like.

I mention this so that you would realize that no man's personality must dominate or define the Church, except that of Christ. Yet, unlike the Orthodox Church, the the Church of the West had been defined and redefined by some many different men on the throne of Saint Peter. The Church can remain timless only if it is defined by God and not by men.

The purpose of this article, and I hope this becomes clear, is that the Church does should not depend on the personality of the Pope or anyone else, nor should the Pope be the central personality in the Church. The Church is where we receive Sacraments, where we partake of the Gifts, in fullness whether we are in a small parish in Louisana or in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.

I know there are Roman Catholics who can show "theological documentation regarding our status as "the one true Church" whose Bishop of Rome is "Supreme (immediate, universal) Pontiff," the point of the article was to demonstrate, and familiarize those who are not versed in this division, the different about our faith and the Church. And, let me tell you, as close as our Churches are, our cracks are unbridgeable. Any kind of union would consume one or both.

Because he, of all people knows this, the Pope's overtures are so much more perplexing, since they are not backed by any specific proposals, or better yet -- any badly needed new proposals.

8 posted on 07/01/2005 5:37:35 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50

First of all, just an historical time-check, you said "the 'imperial' Papacy has been redefined by one man whose style and personality defined the Papacy for the last 40 or so years, John Paul II" - while it may have SEEMED like 40 years to those less-than-pleased with his pontificate, John Paul was "only" (!) in the 27th year of his Pontificate at the time of his death.

I think your assertion that "the Church administration is a necessity and has nothing to do with its theology" misses the fact that ecclesiology, on both the Catholic and Orthodox sides, does function as part of the theological enterprise. Moreover, how do you explain "factions" (the word was so anathema to Saint Paul!) being "Orthodox in theology," as you put it, whilst denying one another "communio in sacris" (an OCA communicant being refused communion at the ROCOR monastery)? Does such a refusal not imply, or actualize, a judgement on the "fullness" of faith?

You make a very appropriate and important point on "one man's personality not dominating or defining the Church." Didn't the late lamented Father Schmemann have some extremely insightful thoughts on THAT in his Journal (entries at the time of the first papal visit of JP II to the USA)!? Pope Benedict seems VERY in tune with that concern. In fact, the AP carried a story that Pope Benedict had inquired about moving his installation Mass INSIDE Saint Peter's Basilica where, he is said to have remarked, it would be easier to keep the focus on Christ rather than on the Pope . . . the size of the crowds, however, etc.

Finally, you conclude, "our cracks are unbridgeable. Any kind of union would consume one or both." My personal interpretation (always dangerous with Scripture or papal speeches) is that this is precisely what the Pope was acknowledging when he talked about "the unity we seek involves neither absorption nor fusion".


11 posted on 07/01/2005 6:10:28 AM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

To: kosta50
I mention this so that you would realize that no man's personality must dominate or define the Church, except that of Christ. Yet, unlike the Orthodox Church, the the Church of the West had been defined and redefined by some many different men on the throne of Saint Peter. The Church can remain timless only if it is defined by God and not by men. The purpose of this article, and I hope this becomes clear, is that the Church does should not depend on the personality of the Pope or anyone else, nor should the Pope be the central personality in the Church.

The "Rock Star" Papacy owes itself to the discovery of the uses that could made of means of modern communication methods by Hitler, and then appropriated by Pius XII, John XXIII, and John Paul II (just as also appropriated by various world leaders).

Paul VI and Benedict XVI were not cut from that cloth, nor is such a cult of personality bearing useful to the Church, IMHO

271 posted on 07/17/2005 1:51:26 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson