A Church That Packs Them In, 16,000 at a Time

NY Times ^ | July 18, 2005 | JOHN LELAND

[zzen01]

HOUSTON, July 17 - Where the Beers of the World kiosk once dispensed suds to rowdy N.B.A. fans, volunteers were handing out church literature on Sunday. And where Patricia Davis, 38, once saw ZZ Top in concert, she now plans to worship. Skip to next paragraph Enlarge This Image Jessica Kourkounis/Associated Press

Members of the Lakewood Church, the nation's largest, Saturday night at the first service in their new home.

"I was saved from that," Ms. Davis said last week, sitting near the old three-point line at the 16,000-seat arena here that is now her church's new home. "With the waterfalls," she said, "this really feels like a sanctuary."

[zzen01]

What does everyone think of this? Looks alot Milk Toast "Gospel" and Apostatness to me.

[My2Cents]

I'm unimpressed with the church numbers game. To pack that many people into one place usually requires a lot of compromise and pretty watered-down message. Not surprised this appears in the NY Times.

Link requires registration. Is this Joel Osteen's church?

[texgal]

I visited their last location a couple of times. I felt as though the TV stuff that was going on really detracted from the message. I tend to agree that some of what Joel Osteen says is more like the "good times" gospel rather than the Southern Baptist "fire and brimstone" I grew up with.

I feel that while Mr. Osteen is sincere in his ministry, it is just too much. It becomes all about "the show" rather than the message.

[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

Rule #1: God's Word does not return void.

[brooklyn dave]

I prefer small and quiet myself.

[zzen01]

Yes this IS "Joal Osteen's" church. AND the NY Times ALWAYS requires registration(kinda makes ya wonder why).

[gamarob1]

It's not "milktoast", unless you consider Jesus' love to be "milktoast". Then I guess it is. AND I'LL TAKE IT, I love His loving me

It's also not "apostate". Osteen preaches the death and resurrection of Jesus for sins. I think the true apostates are the ones who think nothing is from God but themselves...

[kjam22]

I saw Joel on television last night. I can't figure out why he's still wearing a suit and tie. My preacher says that we can't reach people in this day and age if we don't dress like the average Wal-mart shopper. :)

[gamarob1]

Well personally I prefer Ross stores, but if Wal-mart's insisted upon, I won't debate ;)

[sarasota]

Joel has been on Larry King. I was on board until he talked about Victoria's Secret lingerie and encouraging women to go out and get some (lingerie). His wife's name is also Victoria. I found that odd.

[My2Cents]

Larry King: "Because we've had ministers on who said, your record don't count. You either believe in Christ or you don't. If you believe in Christ, you are, you are going to heaven. And if you don't no matter what you've done in your life, you ain't."

Joel Osteen: "Yeah, I don't know. There's probably a balance between. I believe you have to know Christ. But I think that if you know Christ, if you're a believer in God, you're going to have some good works. I think it's a cop-out to say I'm a Christian but I don't ever do anything..."

Larry King: "What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?"

Joel Osteen: "You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know..."

Larry King: "If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?"

Joel Osteen: "Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. ...

"Joel Osteen: The Prosperity Gospel's Coverboy."

"Outing Joel Osteen: A challenge to the evangelical blogosphere."

[gamarob1]

...and the part you left out is that Joel Osteen publicly corrected himself for saying that

You see, that's the nice thing about preaching forgiveness, acceptance, and second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, 70 times 7 chances: you don't judge others because you know your own shortcomings, failures, and sins.

The heart of Jesus is to forgive and restore. Too bad only Joel Osteen seems to be reminding people about that on a wide scale.

[My2Cents]

...and the part you left out is that Joel Osteen publicly corrected himself for saying that

After he was publicly embarrassed into an apology. I'm inclined to believe his first reaction to the questions, not his crafted duck-and-cover.

[kjam22]

I think it's good that he apologized. But really, you gotta question a christian preacher who won't publically state that there is one and only one way to God. That's a fundamental deal. I'm not sure how he blows that answer the first time.

[My2Cents]

The mega-church fad is a blight upon American Christianity because of the damage it does to faith. Osteen's just another in a long line of people who have put numbers over spiritual depth.

[gamarob1]

After he was publicly embarrassed into an apology.

How do you know that? Are you a part of the Lakewood inside circle?

I'm inclined to believe

Key phrase. It's coming from you because that's what you WANT to believe.

Judgment never wins... GRACE is where it's at. If I make a mistake, I'll do it on the side of grace.

[zzen01]

Who else do you think is part of the "Mega-Church" Movement?

[wallcrawlr]

Judgment never wins... GRACE is where it's at. If I make a mistake, I'll do it on the side of grace.

Be careful...because God does judge. Many people like to leave that out of the Gospel.
Judgement always "wins". No one escapes it. No one can keep the law perfectly so we are all judged to have broken it.

Knowing what you've been saved from and why matters.

[wallcrawlr]

I'm not sure how he blows that answer the first time.

You are being too generous. Certainly you know why.

[kjam22]

yeah I know.... :)