Do you think Revelation has already arived centuries ago? 
Posted on 07/19/2005 7:07:09 AM PDT by topcat54
Do you think Revelation has already arived centuries ago?
I'm always ready to repent and apoligize. What do you think I should repent and apoligize for? Saying that Mr. DeMar is blinking out of his mind?
Sorry.
Well that's probably because you are confused about a few things, e.g.,
The Bible doesn't use the phrase "golden age" to describe the time of Christ's reign. That phrase was invented by men probably to disparage a particular view.
Jesus is ruling today. That is undeniable from the Bible.
"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore F166 and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen." (Matt. 28:18-20)
"For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death." (1 Cor. 15:25,26; cf. Eph. 1:20; Heb. 8:1; 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14)
Satan doesn't get "cast into the pit of fire" until after the "thousand years" (Rev. 20:10).
Well alllrighty then...
KJV has 19 verses containing the phrase "this generation". Words of Messiah in red:
Genesis 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
Psalms 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalms 71:18 Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not; until I have shewed thy strength unto [this] generation, and thy power to every one that is to come.
Psalms 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with [this] generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Matthew 11:16 But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Matthew 12:41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Matthew 12:42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mark 8:12 And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Luke 7:31 And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?
Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Luke 11:31 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with the men of this generation, and condemn them: for she came from the utmost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luke 11:32 The men of Nineve shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
Luke 11:50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
Luke 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
***
And then there's...
Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.
Luke 11:30 For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
1074 genea {ghen-eh-ah'}
from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; TDNT - 1:662,114; n f
AV - generation 37, time 2, age 2, nation 1; 42
1) fathered, birth, nativity
2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family
2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive
members of a genealogy
2b) metaph. a race of men very like each other in endowments,
pursuits, character
2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse race
3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time
4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive
generation), a space of 30 - 33 years
Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Matthew 24:37-39
37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Check!
Jesus is ruling today. That is undeniable from the Bible.
But is it undeniable from current events? Islam would want to weigh in.
Satan doesn't get "cast into the pit of fire" until after the "thousand years" (Rev. 20:10).
Read the scriptures:
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
OK, and shall we also take measures to protect and defend the religious industrial complex of Sun Myung Moon, and the impressive printing presses of the Jehovah's Witnesses? How about Mormon sugar-beet interests? Any other anti-christian cults you are tenderly solicitious towards today?
Dick was somewhat unbalanced.
"Somewhat". A talented raving whacko.
Which book was this, anyway?
Personally I think it is an affront to God to be saying the temple will be rebuilt and the Jewish nation will be pleasing to God. God's divine plan was to make Christians. Anything else sound sacrileges.
As far as Revelation goes, is there a particle verse your talking about? We know the prophesy of the seven churches was fulfilled a long time ago. We know Rev 22 is yet to be fulfilled.
It's not a bad book, and quite religious, in a very unorthodox way.
"Personally I think it is an affront to God to be saying the temple will be rebuilt and the Jewish nation will be pleasing to God." !!!???
"God's divine plan was to make Christians. Anything else sound sacrileges." !!!???
****
Wow - Unbelievable!!!
The Error of Preterism
by Jan Markell
Friday, February 18, 2005 4:49 PM
Haven't You Noticed? It's Heaven on Earth Right Now! The Error of Preterism--by Jan Markell
Olive Tree Ministries, Inc. - www.olivetreeviews.org
Preterism is the eschatological teaching that all Bible prophecy is history. Most of it took place in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The Tribulation was the persecution of the saints and Nero was the antichrist. At the heart of the doctrine is that prophecy was declared and destined to be fulfilled within the generation of Christ's earthly ministry. All references in the Bible to the "last days" refer to the "last days" of Israel, which means that today she has no more relevance than the Canary Islands. The "New Jerusalem" is the Church now and forever. It will "Christianize" the world.
There are "Full Preterists" and "Partial Preterists." Partial Preterists actually consider much of what Full Preterists teach to be heretical. A Full Preterist says that Jesus returned "in spirit" in 70 AD and NOTHING is future. Good-bye "blessed Hope." We're in "the New Heavens and New Earth" right now and Satan is bound. But to Full and Partial Preterists, hardly anything is taken literally--most all is allegorical or symbolic, particularly the entire book of Revelation. To all Preterists, the Olivet Discourse is not about the coming of our Lord but about the destruction of Jerusalem. Revelation was not written in 95 AD but much earlier according to Full and Partial Preterists.
Partial Preterists do believe in a Second Coming, resurrection of believers (but not in the Rapture), and Judgment Seat of Christ. They do not believe in a literal Millennium, Battle of Armageddon, literal antichrist, or a role for national Israel. Prominent Partial Preterists include Gary DeMar, R.C. Sproul, Ken Gentry, and "The Bible Answerman", Hank Hanegraaff.
This theology wasn't taken seriously until the 17th Century, though they will argue that. They will tell you that Dispensationalism wasn't taken seriously until 1817 which is totally false and is another message.
Preterism became prominent thanks to a Jesuit priest, Luis de Alcazar, who sought to defend the Catholic Church against attacks of the Reformers. He sought to defend the Roman Church from some claims they were making about Catholic apostasy. The Preterism taught today, however, only became popular in the late 20th Century.
Dr. Thomas Ice and I will discuss this on this weekend's radio broadcast, January 29 (see my Web site for listening options....www.olivetreeviews.org). All programs are posted on "Radio Archives" 5-6 days later. So here are some bullet points to consider:
r Nero was the antichrist. The term in the Bible they say is not some "future Fuhrer" but was a symbol of Nero and the Roman Empire. The False Prophet was the leadership of apostate Israel who rejected Christ and worshipped instead the Roman Empire (who tormented them, then slaughtered them). Nero's persecutions were limited to Rome, not the whole world.
r Matthew 24 and the book of Revelation are all fulfilled. The destruction of Jerusalem was the Great Tribulation along with the persecution of believers. So how do they justify Matthew 24:21 where it states that the Tribulation will be the worst time in all of history? Many scenarios since 70 AD have been far worse than the destruction of 70 AD, including World War II. And ALL NATIONS of the world did not come against Jerusalem in 70 AD...only Rome. All nations coming against her are to be destroyed. It didn't happen.
r Everything is taken symbolically including the Millennium. Actually, there is no Millennium as Dispensationalists know it. We are now in the "Kingdom of Christ" and have been since the days of the early church. Satan is bound, even though the earth is reeling with sorrow, pain, disasters, and godless governments under Communism and radical Islam. More than 50 million believers have died since 70 AD and there have been 15,000 wars. Some "Kingdom"! Our Lord must be weeping.
r Jesus isn't coming back so what do they do with such obvious scriptures as Acts 1:11, "This same Jesus which is taken up from you into Heaven shall so come in like manner as you have seen Him go"? This should be a challenge to the Full Preterists who believe He came back "in spirit" in 70 AD and that's it for His return!
r The Jews as a nation did not turn to Messiah in 70 AD as prophesied in Zechariah 12:10.
r If all these events took place in 70 AD, when were the nations judged as described in Matthew 25:31-46? They weren't back then because this is FUTURE.
r As for Nero--he wasn't the antichrist! He died in 68 AD before the destruction of Jerusalem. He was a whimpy emperor though evil, indeed. But he doesn't come close to being the "King of fierce countenance" of Daniel 8:23, and he made no covenant with Israel, Daniel 9:26, 27. Dispensationalists believe he will be destroyed by the King of kings, but Nero committed suicide. Before that, he issued no "mark" and people could buy and sell. He sat in no Temple declaring himself God, demanding he be worshipped (II Thess. 2:4). All Preterists deny there will be future Temples such as the Tribulation Temple and Millennial Temple.
r The vials, bowls, seals, and trumpet judgments of Revelation are all symbolic to all Preterists. Thus the carnage (and victory) of Revelation is overlooked and written off.
r Why can people with this theology accept that all of the prophecies of Jesus' first coming were fulfilled literally but Second Coming verses must be symbolic? Are we permitted to pick and choose like this and remain with any hermeneutical credibility and accuracy? This is Biblically and intellectually disingenuous.
CONCLUSION: Revelation was written in about 95 AD and not before 70 AD. Preterism is just another teaching that is filled with doctrinal error and should not be taken seriously. It takes our eyes off of our "blessed hope"--the glorious return of our Lord to take us out of our world of pain and sorrow. The wonderful time of the lion and lamb side by side will be a glorious time. Satan is hardly bound, but he will be and I trust Fox and CNN [will] capture the moment when he is thrown into the pit forever. The King of kings will inaugurate the greatest kingdom the world has even known! What a glorious day awaits us as believers!
This is but a very brief review of the teaching. Consult my Web site, www.olivetreeviews.org, then go to Prophecy Watch for many articles on Preterism. Also get Dr. Thomas Ice's book, "The End Times' Controversy—The Second Coming Under Attack." It is co-authored by Tim LaHaye, a man derided by most Preterists.
Awaiting His return,
Jan Markell
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim. 2:11-15)
It is co-authored by Tim LaHaye, a man derided by most Preterists.
Nothing personal. Only because his eschatology does not square with the Bible.
I see the questions about "how soon" Jesus will return have stumped you.
If you believe "current events" over the Boible, then it is not wonder you are confused.
"For we walk by faith, not by sight." (2 Cor. 5:7)
There is nothing else I can say to help you with your error, other than trust God's Word not men's actions.
"Satan doesn't get "cast into the pit of fire" until after the "thousand years" (Rev. 20:10)."
Read the scriptures:
I did. That's why I mentioned Rev. 20:10.
"by Jan Markell
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." (1 Tim. 2:11-15)"
Now, now, don't be upset with Topcat, he didn't mean you Dr. E. or Suzy, only women who disagree with him.
Hey, Thinkin', let's look at one or two.
"Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets, and your fathers killed them. In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers; for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore the wisdom of God also said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,' that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation." (Luke 11:47-51)
If you interpret "generation" in this context to mean the race of Jews, then you must believe that every group of Jews that have lived since the time of Jesus were punished by God for the sins of the fathers when they killed the prophets.
Or how 'bout another.
"The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here." (Matt. 12:41,42)
Who was the "generation" that witnessed the miracles and heard the teaching of the one greater than Jonah and greater than Solomon? What was the sign of Jonah that they witnessed?
One other thing. If "this generation" refers to the entire race of Jews, then does not "this evil generation" or "this wicked generation" also refer to the entire race of Jews? (See 2b1 above.) Are the Jews a wicked race? If you're consistent, then you must believe they are according to the "generation == race" theory.
Come on, Thinkin' use you noggin'.
Okay
See, aren't you beginning to feel the love again?
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.